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To our visitors and participants on this forum, we would like to add the following mission used by the Hispanic Leadership as of possible interest:
Portuguese people are different: The Portuguese population have stayed relatively isolated in the last few thousand years which makes them unique from the rest of the Iberian population. This conclusion was the result of a study made by the University of Coimbra in Portugal and the University of Madrid in Spain. This study may have important applications in the organ transplant of individuals of Portuguese origin or ancestry. The study was published in the magazine "Immunogenetics."
Here are some definitions: Hispanic:
of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in
the U.S.; especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin
(Merriam-Webster´s Collegiate dictionary)
This Forum has brought interesting reactions, but it seems that
the term Hispanic as used in the USA is not completely understood. May be the following
will help:
A Mexican with Portuguese Jewish Ancestry - Jose Garcia
Dear PAHR Foundation As someone who works in the USA, and in Portugal, Spain and France on a continual basis due to my work requirements I believe that people need to understand a few facts prior to making assessments based on ignorant terminology. Definitions roots: Latins: People from Latium and their capital Rome. Italian After aproximately two hundred of fighting, the Romans finally conquered Lusitania and the peninsula was named by the Romans as: Hispania Baetica, Hispania Taraconensis, and Lusitania. Hispanics: Basicly people that can have some Spanish culture and descent or were heavily influenced by the culture(includes Mexicans, Cubans, Panamanians, etc). DOES NOT INCLUDE BRASILIANS. Latinos/Latinas: Tries to indentify/lump together people that have a culture/language that was heavily influenced by countries that speak languages derived from old latin. Used primarily for people in LATIN AMERICA. Since the combination of European blood with African and local Indian tribes produced mixed race people, the ignoramus populace did not have a label for them. Therefore, Hispanic or Latino/Latina became and is still the identifier for people who are not just speaking Spanish but are considered mestizo/mestico, or in other words, not white.... So every time a Spaniard or Portuguese, French or Italian identifies themselves as Hispanic, Latino/a, they are actually stating that they are mixed race when actually they are not. A good example is when an American out of ignorance congratules or wishes a Portuguese person a happy Cinco De Mayo, or instead of a thank you they say "Gracias". That right there shows you how they see you just because they think that you are Hispanic or Latino. If Hispanics applies to Spaniards, then it should apply to Holland, Phillipines and Italy because they were colonies of the Spanish empire just like Mexico or Columbia. And Latin should apply to half of Canada and other places in the Caribean because they were colonized by the French (and they still speak French today). But they are not. So what that tells you is that if you sucumb to the label, then you deserve it. I do not. I am very proud to be of Portuguese descent or Lusitanian. Do not INSULT me by calling me Hispanic or Latino. If I was a Mexican, then I would not want to be called anything other than Mexican, because to call me Latino or Hispanic would be and insult to my heritage. Proud to be Portuguese American or Luso American or Portuguese Regards, Professor John D. Pereira Ph.D.: Engineering & Physics Location: USA/Portugal
I seem to recall that on the Iberian peninsula, there were two separate countries: hispania and lusitania. Consequently, the Spanish are called Hispanics and the Portuguese are called Luso. Julia Leite
Dear Sirs: Continental Portuguese are White European, plain and simple. By virtue of language and culture Portuguese people are Latin, but hardly Latino or Hispanic. There are small groups of people in Portugal who do not share the Lusitanian genetic and cultural background, but such people are quite few. Some are mixed, distant descendants of Black Africans or Gypsy groups. Others are immigrants originating from Brazil, Eastern Europe, Africa and parts of Asia. Henry Avis
U.S. Census Bureau does not consider Portuguese to be Hispanic
Portugal is not Hispanic. I did study in Lisbon, and the way the Portuguese see themselves is as White/European. There is many factual evidence of it too. The misunderstanding steems from the fact that Portuguese is a Latin Language, and so is French, Italian and Spanish. This report should be revised and corrected. It is unpleasant and makes little sense.
My grandfather name on by mother side was DE Andrade on my father side there name was Reposa. VERY PROUD OF BEING PORTUGUESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR THE NUT THAT SAID HE DOESN'T LIKE AMERICA AND SAID THAT HE'S GLAD HE DOESN'T LIVE HERE. GLAD HE DOESN'T LIVE HEAR WE HAVE TO MANY NUT'S ALREADY HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Click to read the rest of the letter)
Hispanic or Portuguese Yesterday, I suggested to those that misrepresent the Portuguese that they should use the US Census Bureau as a resource for the right classification. However, if you want a quick resource, please search for "Hispanic" on google and go to the WIkipedia link (The Free Encyclopedia) and you will notice world pap of Hispanic countries, Portugal is not one of them. It is sad that some People of Portuguese descent misrepresent themselves. It is also sad that some Portuguese want to have it both ways in the aspect that want to consider themselves as a minority so that their business may receive government funds and then want to be classified as "White" or "Caucasian" for other purposes which they really are. This contradiction will confuse others and it is our fault. We should not have it both ways. Just consider yourself Portuguese and European and not "Hispanic". Regards,
"Failing to See The Whole Picture" by Paulo DaCosta
You know I read all of the comments and I just have to say this is depressing to me. It really makes me want to move out of America. I am a Portuguese, Spanish, Irish and Native American mix and am very offended by the way people are arguing about a culture. Most sadly my mom's culture. Why can't we just be Portuguese if we are Portuguese. Who cares if we don't fit into a category? I would rather check off other than be ridiculed for not knowing what I am in America's eye's. This is truely sad. Why should I care what the American government wants to categorize me as. If you are from Latin America then you should show the Portuguese love because if it wasn't for Magellan then you wouldn't exist. I look at all Latin Americans as cousins. And I definately consider Spain as a sibling country. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. And we certainly have similarities regaurdless of a stupid American census poll. Can't we all just get along? A fellow portuguese; Racheal Smith
"Who is American? by José Alberto Rato"
I would like to say one thing: Since the term Hispanic comes from what the Romans originally named the Iberian Peninsula, Hispania-- which means the land of the rabbits, and has evolved into the word Espana, the Spanish word for Spain-- it cannot be correctly applied to other peoples who live outside the Iberian Peninsula, ie Central and South Americans. Skin color is not what defines an Hispanic (Spaniard); hair and skin color of Spaniards vary greatly. There are Spaniards who are "darker" than the typical South American; there are those as light as the typical Englishman. Being of both Spanish and Portuguese descent and a North American, I am not concerned about defining "racial purity" with the usage of the word, Hispanic; I would like only to preserve the cultural heritage of Spain by reserving the word, Hispanic, for the description of "the people of the land of the rabbits". Hope Vega
@Mr. Denis M. Medeiros 1. Of course portuguese are considered latins.They are latins!!! But they(we) are not latinos.There's a big difference. @Mr. da Gama You wrote that Portuguese were not considered white because they came for work. Does that mean if someone comes to Hawai ( or the USA) for work he's not white? What's about the irish people then?Are they non-white just because they worked in construction or something? Miguc
Mr. Aradas, thanks for your participation: 1. The Census in the United States provides the Government with valuable information. 2. The USA have more than 400 million people in 50 states, from different backgrounds and they all live together in peace. 3. The Census is a tool used all over the world by every government. 4. Some may not agree with the questions asked, others do. The answers are considered valuable. 5. This forum is designed to receive opinions from people of Portuguese ancestry living in the USA who may or may not agree with the Census questions. The present trend is to add more groups, due to the fact that in the last census, 1/4 of the population in the USA were considered Hispanic. Many did not agree. 6. This forum does not endorse racism or anything leading to it. Please separate culture from racism. The Editor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I won't enter the debate of whether Portuguese people should be considered Hispanic. It's inconsecuential. The root of the problem stems from the neurotic obsession on the part of the USA government of putting labels on people and classifying them into neat categories according to their appearance and origin. This is a preposterous, banal pursuit to say the least and, at its worst, it promotes popular prejudice and perpetuates misconceptions and ignorance of the most elementary facts of ethnicity, history and geography. Racial classifications are now obsolete, both scientifically and sociologically, and will become utterly ludicrous in the future as people mix and ethnic barriers collapse. More and more individuals stem from multiple origins, and that fact, thank heavens, will contribute to people judging others more objectively as individuals, not as Mr. or Ms. X, who should behave in a particular way or like certain things because of the colour of their skin and considering where they or their families originally came from. And that applies not only to suposedly ignorant people from the States, but also to people spreading comments such as "we don't want to be considered Hispanics because "Hispanic" applies only to Spain and we all know that Spain has always been a thorn on Portugal's side." Yes, I'm Spanish, from Galicia, my first language is Galician, which has the same origin as Portuguese (namely, Medioeval Galego-Portuguêse) and I love Portugal. No one in Spain or Portugal with an atom of intelligence in them can ignore the fact that there is a lot in common between the two countries. Aren't those comments perpetuating the same irrational prejudices that many of you are subjected to by racial classification (the real problem when transferred to popular perception, not the specific term used) when you put all Spaniards in the same sack with the label "undesireable neighbours" on it? This debate should not be taking place. If people did not pay so much attention to ethnicity, emotions would not be running so high. Don't fuel it. Just ignore it. Or better even, protest against the irrationality of the whole ratial classification system, not just against its inevitable inaccuracies. Join those who regard themselves as individuals that are not conditioned by their ethnicity, either as a self-perception or as the external perception of others. Just a final consideration: I can have more in common with someone from Beijing in today's world than with someone from my home town, skin tone and ethnical origin have little to do with who we are and will have even less in the future. Don't let the sociocultural environment you live in determine your essence as an individual. FIGHT THE INJUSTICE OF THE SYSTEM. BE DISCERNING INDIVIDUALS. Carlos Aradas "From Frederico Muñoz, Southern European"
Should a Portuguese or someone from Portuguese Ancestry check the census form as 1. Portuguese 2. Hispanic 3. Other Within the same household husband and wife, one may check Portuguese for the husband/ and Hispanic for the husband/wife. In the USA Hispanic means that the person came from a Spanish speaking country, mostly in the Americas. The trend in this forum is that most Portuguese, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation would check the census box as "Portuguese", many would like that question to be removed. Governments, politicians, all over the world, like to know where their citizens came from and what they represent, culture, religion, etc. because they think better services and support may be provided. Hope that helps. Manuel Mira, North Carolina
I would like to say one thing: Since the term Hispanic comes from what the Romans originally named the Iberian Peninsula, Hispania-- which means the land of the rabbits, and has evolved into the word Espana, the Spanish word for Spain-- it cannot be correctly applied to other peoples who live outside the Iberian Peninsula, ie Central and South Americans. Skin color is not what defines an Hispanic (Spaniard); hair and skin color of Spaniards vary greatly. There are Spaniards who are "darker" than the typical South American; there are those as light as the typical Englishman. Being of both Spanish and Portuguese descent and a North American, I am not concerned about defining "racial purity" with the usage of the word, Hispanic; I would like only to preserve the cultural heritage of Spain by reserving the word, Hispanic, for the description of "the people of the land of the rabbits". Hope Vega
I'm not sure if this will get posted on the website, but I have a few comments. I am a Portuguese-American currently in the United States Air Force. Pretty dark skin, dark hair, and hazel eyes. I understand very little Portuguese but I can speak and understand quite a bit of Spanish. Both of my parents are Portuguese. My mother is Portuguese, maiden name Duarte, and her side of the family moved to Hawai’i in the late 1800’s early 1900’s, not sure of the exact date. My father, Da Gama, was in route to America from Portugal when he was born in 1961 in Caracas, Venezuela. When I joined the Air Force we had to put our ethnicity and race on our paperwork. My recruiter put “Hispanic/of latin descent” is what the form says for the air force, but it also said other under ethnicity. Which confused me because I never claimed myself as Hispanic, but Portuguese. My parents divorced when I was young and I grew up in Hawai’i. I visited Massachusetts and Rhode Island where my fathers family is in the summer, but spent the rest of the years in Hawai’i. In Massachusetts the Portuguese seem like they are way more traditional, but seem like they consider themselves as Portuguese only…kind of like Italians. They don’t consider themselves white, but also not Hispanic, it seems to me the younger generation considers themselves Hispanic in an almost to fit in kind of way. In Hawai’i, a mostly Asian and Polynesian populated state, Portuguese are everywhere, but usually mixed with other ethnicities. There are the full blooded Portuguese-Americans there like myself, but most Portuguese are mixed with other ethnicities. The first immigrants to work the cane fields in Hawai’i where Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, and yes Portuguese. Because of the fact that my family immigrated to Hawai’i for work, the islands do not considere Portuguese to be white at all. The Portuguese brought many traditions to the island from music to food. The ukulele was brought by the Portuguese but a different playing style was invented by the Hawaiians. Many types of food like malasadas, different types of bread, pao doce, and Linguica (called Portuguese sausage in Hawaii) and there are many Portuguese named streets and also Portuguese churches on some of the islands. Since I have been referred to as Portuguese or “portagee” my whole life being called White or Hispanic makes me angry. Not that I have problems with either, but I am proud to be Portuguese, so I want to be called Portuguese. In Hawai’i and the North East USA people usually can tell I am of Latin descent with out a problem. But since I joined the Air Force people from everywhere all think different things. Portuguese people are unique...our language…our culture...our profiles. There are dark skinned and fair skinned, dark eyed and blue/green eyed, dark haired and light haired, we are unique. Nelly Furtado has very dark hair but very light eyes and she lets everyone know she is Portuguese. I think everyone should just say we are of Latin descent, but we are Portuguese. Not white, not Hispanic, not Latino…Portuguese! Be proud that you are Portuguese. Michael Da Gama
Mr. Medeiros; The following is for your information: 1. The Portuguese are a minority like many others and represented accordingly. 2. The Azoreans, Madeirans, Minhotos, Algarvios, etc. are Portuguese, not a separate nationality. 3. The Portuguese-Americans have a separate Caucus in Congress just like the Hispanics. 4. The Portuguese are well represented nationally by PALCUS, the Portuguese-American Leadership Council of the United States and is based in Washington, DC. 5. The CHLI recognizes the Americans of Hispanic and Portuguese descent separately not not as one group. PALCUS also does the same. The Congressional Hispanic Leadership Institute (CHLI) works to promote alternative approaches to challenges faced by more than 40 million Americans of Hispanic and Portuguese descent living in the United States today.
Dear Miguel; You are incorrect. Portuguese are considered Latins. A third of our members in our ogranization are from Spain to answer your question. We have Mexicans, Argentinians, Brazilians, Columbians, Venezualians, Azoreans, Spainards, Portuguese, Puerto Ricans, etc. In Congress, the Hispanic Caucus was recently changed to reflect that Portuguese ancestry is welcomed to the group. I again identify as a Latino--that is my business not yours. I am pleased to learn that you don't live in the United States and I am sure you are making a contribution of some sort where you currently reside. The Portugeuse are under-represented minorites in the United States. How you identify though is a question of personal self -identity. So don't ask me to call myself something that I don't think I am not or am not comfortable with and I won't ask you to do the same. Sincerely; Denis M Medeiros
@ Mr. Denis Medeiros You are right when you say that Portuguese and Spanish heritage are embraced. We come from the iberian peninsula (Hispania). But just because someone comes from the iberian peninsula doesn't mean he is Hispanic! But let me ask you a question: You wrote that you are president of a Latino organization.So let me ask you: how many Spanish (from Spain),Italian,French,Romanian people do you have in your organization? Because this nations( and Portugal) are the real Latins( not Latinos) from Europe. You may be Latin but you are surely not a Latino.There is a big difference between Latins and Latinos.Latins are white, based on their ethnicity and heritage because they come from Europe; Latinos are not white because they are a mix of many races. By the way how could Latinos ask you if you are not a Latino? Just look at the countries where they come from! A very mixed population where there are some dark skinned people as well as white skinned people.For them it's all the same! Man, You cannot imagine how happy i am that i don't live in the U.S.A ; strange country. Miguel Martins
I am appalled at the misconception presented in this forum about what some individuals consider Hispanics. Many would argue that it is offensive and incorrect to use skin color to define what is Hispanic. Using that logic one would need to reclassify blacks based solely on skin color--those with darker shades are more black and identify more than those lighter in shade. This would be very inappropriate and a form of racisim to use color to define a group of peoples. This could suggest an element of racism by my portuguese kin in being associated with Hispanics and prefer to be called white out of shame or being labelled a "minority". Every university in the United States and the Library of Congress considers Portuguese in their Hispanic Studies offerings. It is this academic piece that has stood the test of time and will continue to influence laws. Time magazine got it right!!! In the end-it is how the individual self identifies, which is a private decision and is no one elses business. I am currently President of Alianza, a campus wide Latino organization at my institution, and no other Latinos have ever questioned my NOT being Latino since I am Portuguese In fact, Portuguese and Spanish heritage are embraced! It is time to stop fighting wars between feudal kings fought centuries ago. This is the 21st century. In fact, I would argue that since Hispanic came from Hispania the region the Romans gave to the Iberian peninsula shared by Spain and Portugal, we are ceeding our heritage to Spain as being the only decendants from Hispanola. In some circles I have heard Portuguese refer to themselves as Luso-Hispanic, denoting their Portuguese roots. Denis M Medeiros, PhD, RD
I just can't read it anymore. Portuguese people considering themselves as Latinos? How stupid is that? What has a guy from Portugal in common with a guy from South/Central America (notice that I mean native people here, not some blond haired people from South America, because they are European, more or less)? The answer is language (Brazil) and that's it. Just look at one guy from South America and one from Portugal. You can't say they are similar! If people consider Portuguese to be Latinos then they can't consider South Americans to be Latinos because racially, they don't have much in common. And I could go no and on for hours. So let's be serious. If the people on the list are considered as white in America, so should be the Portuguese. What are the qualifications to be considered as white in America? Is that an Anglo-Background? Northern European background? Or is there something else? This is for me as European very strange, because it seems like if somebody with a darker complexion comes from north Europe they are white. But if the same man/woman comes from south Europe they are not white. Well you see that here must be something wrong here. White people cannot just have blond haired and blue eyes otherwise the people on the list would be non-white! That's why I’m saying that Mr. Sean Heuer's argumentation is non-sense. What should you care about what your friends or everyone else says? Is there anyone of your friends who Is an anthropologist? Miguel Martins (I think with this name I will never be white in America)
HISPANICS!? After coming across with an article in the on-line edition of “Time”, that labelled Portuguese immigrants as Hispanic, I couldn’t avoid feeling outraged. As a Portuguese, born and bred - though already prepared to hear it from some American tourist- I would never thought that I would ever come to read such an ignorant thing in one of the most prestigious magazines in the world. Hispanic refers to someone with origin in a Spanish speaking country or in Spain itself. Calling Portugal, -which being the European country with the oldest boundaries certainly deserves a little more respect than that!- Hispanic, would be regarded by Portuguese (from Portugal) as most offensive, for these two countries have a history of rivalry that goes back more than a few centuries. However, what shocked me the most was reading in one of the letters a young boy claiming to be half-Portuguese and half-white!!! This really is beyond my understanding, and it certainly is news for the rest of the Portuguese people who all this years foolishly believed that Portuguese was their nationality, and not their race. Portugal is the result of a mix of people and cultures. From the roman presence to the Germanic invasions and more recently the African immigration lots of factors contributed to the actual path, in which my brown skinned girl friend, my blond cousin, my black friend and me can all be considered Portuguese! Calling us all Hispanic would hardly make any sense. Your country really has an issue with labels. Is cataloguing people that important? I fail to see what good will come of it. If I understand, declaring to be Hispanic will be legally beneficial… but would the law allow a Portuguese person to declare as such?
I am half Portuguese and half white. I distinguish being Portuguese from being white because I am treated differently for being Portuguese so why should I fill out on forms that I am white. My mom was born in Pico in the Azores and my Dad is an European mutt. My mom is now married to a Portuguese man. I was born in California and I live in San Jose, whose population is primarily made up of Mexicans and Portuguese. I can speak Spanish and Portuguese, but neither fluently, and many of my friends are Latinos. Just last week I was asking my mom what I nationality I should circle on my SAT forms. She told me that she used to put Latino, but now puts Caucasian on her government forms. I have also put other and disagree with my mom about putting white. I have black hair and year round tan skin and most of my friends call me Mexican or "beaner" despite countless times telling them that I am Portuguese. I have gotten many funny responses from people when I tell them I am Portuguese. My favorites are "Oh so your Mexican" and "Oh you are from Puerto Rico." I am in high school right now and I feel that I should be able to receive scholarships to college for being Latino if I am treated differently for being Latino and since most people think I am Mexican or Hispanic. I am very proud to be Portuguese, but one thing that upsets me is the Portuguese population in America who dislikes the Hispanics in America. I think that the Portuguese in America need to maybe be a little less nationalistic to avoid being prejudiced to other nationalities. I am very glad that this discussion forum has interested so many people and I hope my ideas are shared on your forum, Thank You. Sean Heuer Dear Sean, Good luck and ignore stereotype labels. Most people do not know any better. Manuel Mira, North Carolina
Dear Isabelle Maria, You are right. People should not be labeled, much less stereotyped. All it does is divide people and prejudge them. We should all try to treat people as individuals. But it's so hard in this crazy society and world. As far as South Americans not having their own identity: Do you mean racially or ethnically? Well...they are not the only people on this earth who are not so-called "pure" (whatever that means...again, there we go again with dividing and labeling): Russians were conquered by Genghis Khan, a Mongolian, many years ago. The blood flows in their veins. There is an old Russian saying, "scratch a Russian and you'll find a Tatar". Most African Americans have European ancestry (whether the United States wants to admit it or not). We know about the "mixing" that happened in Latin America, courtesy of Spain and Portugal, etc. Even the Portuguese and Spaniard are mixed: Moors, Romans, Celtics, Germanic, Jewish, etc., passed through the Iberian Peninsula. Where do you think Nuno Bettencourt and Antonio Banderas got their gorgeous, dark looks from? No one is pure. If you go way, way back, everyone, even the most blondest, blue-eyed person from Iceland, originated from Africa. Any anthropologist, scientist and biologist will back that up. There is only one race. The human race. So all this division among people is just a plain waste of time. Take care. Diana Castro
I am from Lisbon, portugal. I am 35 years old and I think that people in the states are super confused about ethnicity. What do the real latins (Romanian, French, Portuguese , Italians and Spanish) have in common with South americans. Not much really. I feel bad for South American people it is like they cant have their own ethnicity. They are always trying to find a new name for them. Off course the portuguese are not hispanic the kingdom of Portugal was established before the kingdom of Spain. I don't even think that Spaniards are Hispanic, they are just Spanish. One cannot take people from different continents and group them all into a group. Latin is merelly a language root not a race. Although I think people from South America are wonderful people with such rich culture what do I a girl from Lisbon have to do with for example " Mexico" Hispanic can only meen latin when refering to the peoples of countries conquered by Spain. And if hispanic meens brown skin then the blonde people in Argentina would then be non-white. And most children from Spain are blonde anyway when they are little and their hair becomes darker later so then are they born white and become brown later? Another thing we don't call any of the original peoples of Africa that speak French or Portuguese Latins. Why? Because they are African.
I would just like to clear something up so people will not make this mistake in the future. Hispanic is a word made by the United States government for the census. It has nothing to do with the word "hispana". The word hispanic means you are a person from a country that speaks Spanish. So if you are of Portuguese decent and you put on a peace of paper that you are hispanic you are lying.
Wow. I've enjoyed reading these entries. I am not of Portuguese descent but my father is southern Italian and my mother is mostly Anglo-saxon.I guess that makes me "Anglo-Latin'? If I were Portuguese, I would not want to call myself 'Hispanic' as Portugal is not/never was a colony of Spain and the Portuguese language is quite distinct from Castellano spoken in Spain. Suffice to say that even though Caucasian is the 'White' race, not all Caucasians are really that white. People from India or North Africa can be quite dark but are still Caucasians. I remember back in high school, one of my teachers said that she needed to take a count of all 'non-white' kids. There were no blacks in my class but the teacher asked for kids who were Asian or Spanish or Italian. I immediately became embarrased. Having blondish hair and blue eyes, I always thought that I was white. It seems ridiculous that a person with my complexion would be considered non-white based on some idiotic governmental classification system but there are plenty of Italians, Greeks, Spanish or Turkish Americans that are quite dark and appear to be visually quite different from Northern Europeans. Rick Pavia or Riccardo Prospero Pavia
Portuguese-Americans and Hispanic by George Perry, Ph. D.
Dear Dr. Perry; Just a note to let you know that I enjoyed your scholarly article on Portuguese-Americans: the Lost Hispanics. I saw it on the Portuguese American Resource web-site. I am Portuguese and am President of the Hispanic Faculty group here at Kansas State University. I use to be at Ohio State and was active in the Hispanic culture there as well. There is the misconception that the term Hispanics refers only to Spanish. It really refers to the Iberian Peninsula in which Portugal is a part of. Also, I am Azorean and you make a good case as to the colonialization part of the Portuguese empire being similar to that of the Spanish empire.
To my dear beloved from SdM. from Canada: I'll make a deal with you: lets stop stereotyping people, okay? There are good and bad people. It only leads to narrow-minded nationalism and hatred. Funny, how feelings are passed down from generation to generation, whether one is Spanish, Portuguese, Armenian, Irish, etc. We are all conditioned to react in a certain way (yes - I've studied sociology). I was just talking from positive experiences I had, and of course you from negatives. I'm sorry if I offended you. All I'm saying is that you can't categorize all people: I know "galegos" who actually get along better with Portuguese than people from Castille; I meet a Brazilian who loves cracking jokes about Portuguese and feels that his people actually "improved" the Portuguese language; my Afro-Cuban friend feels more at ease with a Brazilian than she does with a white Argentine, etc. Oh, by the way: I was born in the United States...and I don't look down on Canadians: on the contrary, I love them and admire their education system and politics. They are well loved around the world especially Europe and Latin America...something you should me proud of. Cheers and God Bless, Diana Castro
Hello,
Hi, as a person who speaks both Portuguese and Spanish, I just want to clarify one thing: there is no such thing as a Hispanic Race! That term was invented by the US census bureau because they were ignorant in distinguishing the different Spanish-Speaking nations, people and cultures. Therefore, a white Spaniard is lumped in with a Black Cuban, who is lumped in with a Mexican Indian...so much for American education! Taking our anger out on people who speak Spanish is not cool, because of another person’s ignorance. What I also find ironic is how we, as Portuguese-speaking people, still hold a grudge against Spain because of the 60 year invasion back then many years ago. Well...should the Brazilians be angry with us for colonizing them? Everyone has gone through war - even Spain was invaded by the Moors. Get a life! If you want to get angry, why not vent our anger on being under brutal Roman rule thousands of years ago? How about working for unity? Most of my Hispanic friends love Portuguese and Brazilians and consider us their brothers. And no, they do not call us Hispanic, but fellow Latinos as well. Peace Diana Castro
Please see below an e-mail I sent to Time magazine regarding the article recently published about "most influencial hispanics in America" which lists Portugal as an hispanic country. We are Latin, like the Spanish, Italian, French, etc., but not hispanic. Thanks, On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:23:28 -0500, "dneves" <dgneves@fastmail.us said: I have been a subscriber and enjoying TIME magazine for many years.
I am 21 years old, I was born in Canada and my mother is 5 generations Canadian. My father was born in Portugal, he is a mix of Brazilian and Spanish also. I take after my father in appearance almost 90%. Growing up in a small town of mainly Anglo-descent(I'm talking Irish, Scottish, British....) I was made fun of, because my hair was dark, my skin was still tanned in the winter and I had more hair on my arms than the other girls(they would call me yellow girl, in fact I am olive colour). I was so embarrassed of my last name "Moleirinho" everyone wanted to know what it was, but I pretended I didn't know. I always loved portuguese food, culture and language but would hide that from my friends because they didn't understand it. It wasn't until my first trip to Portugal that I realized, I should be proud of my background, I love the country, the people and even Fado! I am no longer embarrassed of being of Portuguese descent in fact I am proud! I am confused because people can't figure out what I am, I am told that I look Latino or Brazilian, some say I look even Moroccan (I am so confused) Portuguese people call me "morena" I don't really know how to classify my self when it comes to the race stuff. I know I don't look like a typical white girl but I check off white. My boyfriend is from Uruguay and he is considered Hispanic. My skin is much more darker than his and people thinks he's the European not me. I think that everyone is different and we should stop trying to fit everyone into a little box. I am a MUTT and I will never fit in but I am proud that I am different. Hispanic, no. Latino, yes! thanks for letting me share my story Alexandra Moleirinho
I am writing in regards to the debate I’ve just read on your website about whether or not Portuguese people should be considered 'Hispanic'. I am the product of Azorean parents and have never considered myself to be such. I actually take great offense at being considered Spanish, asked if I speak Spanish, told I look Spanish because it seems few people I run into, besides North Africans, seem to realize their is a different country next door to Spain ( rolls eyes ) Why should Portuguese people succumb to the ignorance of others? I am extremely proud of my cultural heritage, will be back to the Azores to visit family soon and look forward to seeing the Portuguese National Football team do well at next year's World Cup. I have nothing but love for my people and hope they teach their kids to be proud of their heritage ( not in a crazy, self-absorbed nationalistic way but...you know what I mean). And a special message to Portuguese parents who have daughters. Portuguese history is written on my face am I not the least bit ashamed to not look 'white'. But that wasn’t always so. I remember being told by a classmate in grade school that my dark hair reminded him of witches’ hair. So of course I tried to lighten it. For years I was brainwashed by North American pop culture into believing that only Nordic beauty was beautiful. But as I got older, I developed a sense of perspective and got in touch with my roots. I will never be brainwashed again. Don’t let anyone ever tell your little Luso-Princesses that they aren’t beautiful. We all are......in all our incarnations.
Sir! Read some of the comments about if Portuguese or Brazilians are/or should be considered Hispanics. Well NO! First Hispanic refers to all countries that speak the Spanish lanquage whether pure Spain or dialect. Many countries do, thanks to the back of the Portuguese explorers. And the pope's compromise excuse… because most other nationalities can't distinguish one Spanish dialect to the other nor from Portuguese to Italian they assume we are too…
I am of Portuguese decent and I myself classify me as not ''white'' because of many readings. Lusitano is what us Portuguese should be called, I mean if we are white then how come we are connected to Spain and probably more South than the Country itself. If Spain has the word Hispanic or Latino then we should be respected in the same manner and be called Lusitanos or Lusiads. Most of my family has dark skin, but skin is not everything. When I was little I got very confused why I had such dark skin compared to all the people in my school in Canada. Well, most of the kids were English or Canadian. Many times I would be asked if I was Spanish and I would say no I'm Lusiad Portuguese or Azorean (I was born in Azores, São Miguel.) In the US we are classified as non-white but I would rather be called Lusitano or simply Portuguese. Thank you. - Couto
I
have been reading all of these
responses since over the summer. My
father is Italian and Albanian while
my mother is German, Czech, Dutch and
Irish therefore I have a very mixed
ancestry. I am proud of my Italian and
Albanian roots but not my northern
European roots. I read Michael
Maciel's e-mail and found it strange
that on:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/mx.html
they don't have any record of
Mexicans' Portuguese ancestry. I also
found out that Romanians have Slavic
ancestry which explains the fact that
they have lighter skin than Italians
and other Mediterranean Europeans.
Therefore, my last sentence was wrong.
To find more information concerning
Hispanic (see:
http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Hispanic.html)
and concerning the Latin Grammys I
strongly believe that they should
change its name to the Iberian Grammys.
~ Steven Colosi
I came across this forum by accident, and I have to say that I was a bit surprised by a couple of things. I was first surprised to see that there are some Portuguese individuals who consider themselves Hispanics as absurd as that is. I've never known any Portuguese person who considers himself Hispanic. I have so many Hispanic friends, my girlfriend and future wife is Hispanic, and so many other people in my life. And even then don’t consider myself or any other Portuguese person Hispanic. After reading all the messages I still don’t get the point of so many of you, I still don’t see a valid point of why Portuguese should be considered Hispanics. Because we live in the Iberian Peninsula? Well then we are Iberians. Because the Romans called it the Hispania peninsula? Who cares what they called it. Are the Romans the authority in people's definitions? Should we go find out what the Chinese called the Iberian Peninsula 1000 years ago? Besides, the American government doesn't use the term Hispanic for the people who are from the region that the Romans called Hispania. The American government couldn’t care about the Romans. South Americans didn’t come from the Iberian Peninsula; they just use the same languages. I think Portuguese people just want to be Portuguese; we just don’t want to be called something we are not. If you call a Japanese person Chinese, that person will be offended, not because he thinks Japanese are better, but because he is proud of who he is, and wants to be viewed that way. The person that wrote before me wrote about how Portuguese and Spanish cultures are so alike. The Portuguese and the Spaniards maybe. But south Americans are so different, in everything, from food, to music, to history, character, way of life, even appearance. Even Spaniards have so little in common with Hispanics. Aside from language. Yes Hispanics, you know? The term for people who speak Spanish in the NEW WORLD? Don’t call yourselves Hispanics just because your homeland is close to Spain or just because you can understand some of what is said on the Spanish channel. That doesn't make you Hispanic. We are Lusitanos that is the right term. Stop trying to be something you are not. Be proud of being Portuguese. The only people who seem to think that Portuguese are Hispanics are a few Portuguese people. Nobody else in the world does. Redvip2000@aol.com
From around eighth grade I have been interested in finding out the way our government groups people into racial categories on U.S. Census forms, State tests, and at the DMV, knowing that Hispanic is not a race and is already aforementioned on the forms. There seems to be many lacks of understanding on some and I am going to make it my sole duty to bring awareness to this politically sensitive matter. I support adding Mediterranean/ olive to the application form. The system is so screwed up that everyone from countries east of the Middle East is considered Asian despite the fact that people from India are Caucasians and not at all relative to people from China.
Let me start off by saying that I want nothing to do with Spain. This may sound harsh, but I am SO PROUD to be Portuguese and all that it stands for. Spain has been a thorn on Portugal's side since the days of Leon and Castile. My family is from the Azores. This probably means of mixed ethnicities of Iberian/Celtic/Moorish/African/Flemish, etc. I certainly do not consider myself Spanish or Hispanic. To me Hispanic means a mixed race of Indian/African/Spanish. Portugal was always and always will be different than Spain. Not better or worse, just different. Both my parents have the traditional European look...the light skin, the blue eyes. I on the other hand, have light skin, but brown eyes and hair. When I have a tan I can certainly pass for middle eastern. As a child I had curly blonde hair. All this suggests that I am not Nordic but neither am I African or Hispanic (of mixed Indian/African/Spanish races) . Like the Spaniards from Spain, the Italians, and the Greeks, I am a wonderful mix of peoples from southern Europe, the crossroads of the old world. To me Hispanic means "of Spain". Portugal is not "of Spain". Even in ancient times, present-day Portugal was called Lusitania. Sorry, I'm all over the place here. But hey I'm not writing my dissertation. J. DeMello (name's origin could be Flemish)?
Regarding the issue of whether it is correct for Portuguese to be lumped into the Hispanic category, I have this to say. First, I think that both Hispanic and Portuguese people ought to possess the strength and pride of character to determine their own racial classification systems. It is a mark of weakness to succumb to the racial classification systems of an America that is basically Anglo-Saxon and Northern European in origin.
Are we Hispanics or Portuguese?
Well it would seem to me that the early 1900's were not as confused by this predicament as everybody seems to be now. On birth certificates dated at that time under color or race, the Portuguese were listed as "white"- period. The confusion comes in when Spain and Portugal, (a white race) invaded Mexico and intermarried with the Aztec Indians, (a dark race) called Mexica, which left a new race of people. The offspring were no longer Aztec nor were they Portuguese or
Spanish. They were a mixture of two or three different races, and so they became a race unto themselves. The Mexicans have Portuguese,
Spanish, and Aztec blood in them, but the Portuguese,
Spanish, or Aztec, do not have Mexican blood in them. The Portuguese are Portuguese because of the nations that bred them, but the nations that bred them are not Portuguese. Is this clear?
Frank Silva
Ola, my name is Lenio, I am a Portuguese immigrant who was born in Terceira, Angra do Heroismo in Portugal. I am just writing to say that it's a relief to find a site where other Portuguese people like myself are fighting to make the rest of the world understand that we are not Spanish and all those other ethnicities/races so many ignorant people consider us to be. I am a very proud Portuguese. I even consider myself to be a Portuguese nationalist. I came to America at the age of three and a half and I thank God that I have grown to be a man who did not forget about his people and country due to all the ignorance and falseness around me from people that I've met and things that I've seen and heard. I must be honest about something, it pisses me off when I see and hear things about the Portuguese that label us something other than what we are. All the stereotypes and things like that. Due to all of this I have become very nationalistic because I feel that's the way we need to be. I hope I am making sense and if not then I am sorry but right now I am speaking from the heart on how I feel inside and so I'm just typing as the thoughts come to mind. I know How I feel about this inside and I try to explain as best I can to other Portuguese. We cannot allow ourselves to give up in order to satisfy the ignorance of those who want us to go with what they label us. It really makes me depressed when I see one of our own say they are Hispanic. Things like this just really get me angry. We are Portuguese. Recently some of my family members have gone on a trip to Terceira to visit family there. Before they left we were all sitting in my Uncles house in his living room talking while we waited for the bus that was supposed to arrive to take them to the air port. There was a Spanish lady there who I had never met. I guess she was a friend of one of my family members and she just came along. Anyway, I was sitting on the couch watching everyone converse and my aunt started speaking to her in Spanish (even though she understood Portuguese) and so this irritated me a bit as I was watching my Portuguese family members laugh and speak Spanish to each other to see who could do it better and I finally just got up and left to go sit outside. Later two of my little cousins, Anna and Brianna came out and asked what was the matter and I explained to them that we are Portuguese and we have enough struggle already with being depicted as Spanish and us doing that would not help us in getting away from that depiction. I explained to them that we need to be proud of being Portuguese. I try to set examples like that to not just my little cousins but anyone who I know is Portuguese. The point of this story is just to give an example of how I feel inside. I am not afraid to admit that I am all for the Portuguese. People may consider that being closed minded or whatever but that doesn't matter because I have my reasons. The way I see it is we need to proud like that we need to put our foot down and say "HEY! ... we are Portuguese and Proud! We ARE different!" One of the reasons why the events in that story irritated me is because I did not see that Spanish lady put forth an effort to speak Portuguese after she was asked to try so why they heck do I have to see my OWN people put that effort in to speaking their language?... I mean I see that all the time... I see so many Portuguese people who know Spanish, who understand it and So many Spanish who DON'T know Portuguese or try to understand it. I personally believe that the Spanish don't give a rats A$$ about our language so why do we care of theirs?... I get really mad and very nationalistic because we as Portuguese are like... UNDER DOGS I guess that's best way to explain it. I'm tired of all these stereotypes about my people and I for one will fight for Portugal and all my Portuguese brothers and sisters and I do not wish to do this alone but rather with their help:) Let's STAND TOGETHER!... Sincerely, Lenio M.Q.B.
Hello, my name is Michael Maciel,
I was born in Los Angeles, California, USA in 1987 where I have lived all my life. I was born to Mexican-immigrants and I'm confident I'm of Spaniard descent, since my mother is very light in complexion and my dad could be called white with his complexion. For years I have wondered about the origin of my last name Maciel Finally, know I know, I'm 17 now and I have learned that my last name is actually of PORTUGUESE ORIGIN!
The Foundation has
received a letter from Mr. Martellari, an Italian-American gentleman who has an opinion
about the Hispanic classification. He frequents the virtual Italia web site, which has also
a forum to discuss the same subject.
I have to say, this is one of the most interesting and controversial dialogues I've had the pleasure to read on this site. It's a treat to read other's opinions on this politically sensitive matter... Truly, Joseph Martellari Hello, Wow I was very captivated by the conversations, however I am not Portuguese, my sister is. I am Italian and Spanish. It is so hard to mark the correct thing on these dumb census forms today. I say that because the origins of Hispanic and Latin were all turned around. People of Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and French descent are Latin because of the languages. Now, after research and reading so many different articles, I consider people of South America Mestizos because they are descendents of Latin and native blood lines, as well as African descent. I can pass for the Latin that is known here and to the rest of the world. However when I tell people I'm Latin, I'm not saying that I'm from Latin American but because of my Latin heritage of Italian and Spanish descent. Latin means the language of ancient Rome and a member of a people speaking a romance language. Hispania was a termed used for the people of the Iberia Peninsula which consists of the Spaniards and Portuguese. I assume it is how you see yourself and how you want others to see you. The government is the one who starting putting people in categories without knowing the true meaning of the word and group but that is due to ignorance. I view Portuguese, Spaniards, and Italians to be Latin and they are one the "grand parents" to the "Latinos" of South America. Which now I referred them as being mestizos because they are descendents of Latins, Native Americans, and Africans. If you want to go even deeper than that, they also have Arabic and Jewish descent as well.....so basically WE OUR ALL MIXED MUTTS!!! So in conclusion I consider my sister and me to be Latin, and I mark other on the census form and fill it in if there is a line provided. !gracias!. .........Pamela Pinto-Da'Moni
(We kindly request our visitors
to translate the following from Spanish
to English)
People, We all have Latin blood running through our veins that's what binds us. You all need to think of it that way. We are all part of the Latin culture if your Hispanic or Portuguese. I don't think of myself as a white guy with a tan. I am Latin. Joe Silva
I'm sorry, but this seems like a ridiculous discussion! Are people in Northern Italy, French? Ok, their dialect is similar and they "look" the same, but that is absurd! Nope, they're Italiano. Many Portuguese (myself included) look like Spaniards or Italianos. In California, which is where I'm writing from, some people think that I'm |
