PLEASE NOTE: These pages do not reflect the views or opinions of the foundation. They are for information and discussion purposes only.
To our visitors and participants on this forum, we would like to add the following mission used by the Hispanic Leadership as of possible interest:
Established in November 2003, the Congressional Hispanic Leadership Institute (CHLI) works to promote alternative approaches to challenges faced by more than 40 million Americans of Hispanic and Portuguese descent living in the United States today. Through educational partnerships and events, CHLI will provide opportunities for discussion and exploration of strategic solutions for community challenges that in turn, benefit the nation as a whole.
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Portuguese people are different: The Portuguese population have stayed relatively isolated in the last few thousand years which makes them unique from the rest of the Iberian population. This conclusion was the result of a study made by the University of Coimbra in Portugal and the University of Madrid in Spain. This study may have important applications in the organ transplant of individuals of Portuguese origin or ancestry. The study was published in the magazine "Immunogenetics."
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To all Portuguese-Americans and/or Portuguese-Canadians:
Read several definitions of Hispanic first before considering yourselves as Hispanics;
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Hispanic is basically an American term, not used in Europe;
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Even people from Spain are not Hispanics; they are Spanish;
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In Portuguese we use the term "Lusófonos" to describe people of Portuguese descent or culture.
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Here are some definitions:
Main Entry: His·pan·ic
Pronunciation: hi-'spa-nik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin Hispanicus, from Hispania Iberian Peninsula, Spain. Date: circa 1889
Hispanic: of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in the U.S.; especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin (Merriam-Webster´s Collegiate dictionary)
Hispanic: (connected with) a person who lives in the United States but who originally came from, or whose family came from, S America, Mexico, Cuba or Puerto Rico ( Cambridge International Dictionary of English )
Hispanic:
connected with a person who lives in the US but who originally came from or whose family came from Spanish-speaking Latin America
A Hispanic-American is an American citizen of Hispanic origin. ( Cambridge Dictionary of American English )
Hispanic: Meaning (information, definition, explanation, facts) Hispanic, as used in the United States, is one of several terms used to categorize US citizens, permanent residents and temporary immigrants, whose background hail either from Spain or the Spanish-speaking countries of Latin America. The term is used as a form of classification for the immigrants and descendants of a wide range of ethnicities, races and nationalities who use Spanish as their primary language. http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Hispanic.html
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) two definitions found: Hispanic \His*pan"ic\, a. [L. Hispanicus.]
Of or pertaining to Spain or its language; as, Hispanic words.
From WordNet (r) 1.6 : Hispanic adj : related to or derived from the people or culture of Spain;" the Hispanic population of California is growing rapidly" [syn: Hispanic, Latino]
Letters (The most recent are at the top and in blue).
These letters do not necessarily reflect the view of the Foundation
This Forum has brought interesting reactions, but it seems that the term Hispanic as used in the USA is not completely understood. May be the following will help:
The term Hispanic has been used in the USA by the Census to establish the number of people who are from North, Central and South America and either speak Spanish or originated from a country that speaks Spanish.
We do not believe that the US Government is trying to state that one group is better than the other. Portuguese and Spanish are not better or worse, they are different. Yes, all of us belong to the human race, yes we all have our regional pride, but this is not the question for this forum.
The question: Should a person who came from Portugal or from a Portuguese speaking country consider him/herself Hispanic within the meaning represented by the Census, or place the name Portuguese under the "OTHER" classification?
We also pose another question related to nationalities: Is there a difference between Canadians and Americans?
Politicians love to represent large numbers of people. The final result produced by the Census will determine the electoral Districts and to a certain extent the allocation of funds to help a particular group towards education or other purposes. We request our readers that the discussion be kept in that perspective. Also we request that writer be properly identified. The Editor, PAHRF.
If no name is enclosed we'll add the email address from the sender.
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Portuguese, Portucalense, Lusitanian or Hispanic? Find out the differences. Click here.
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Was a Hispanic Justice on the Court in the ’30s?
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Here some more "wood"' for the discussion.
Hispanic and latino is not the same definition.
Fernando
Portugal adopted the word "Lusitanic",[11] or "Lusitanian" to refer to its culture and people, in reference to the Lusitanians, one of the first Indo-European tribes to settle in Europe. From this tribe's name had derived the name of the Roman province of Lusitania, which was a part of Roman province of Hispania, and Lusitania remains Portugal's name in Latin.
The expansion of the Spanish Empire between 1492 and 1898 brought thousands of Spanish migrants to the conquered lands, creating a large settlement that stretches all over the world and producing several multiracial populations. The term Hispanic is sometimes applied to the populations of these places. This is not necessarily so for people of Portuguese ancestry. For instance, Portuguese Americans are not considered "Hispanic" by the United States Census Bureau.
Definitions in the United States
The terms Hispanic and Latino tend to be used interchangeably in the United States for people with origins in Spanish–speaking countries. Latino, from American Spanish, is used in some cases as an abbreviation for latinoamericano, "Latin American".[12] In some Hispanophone countries, Hispanic and Latino are not commonly used.
The 1970 Census was the first time that a "Hispanic" identifier was used and data collected with the question. The definition of "Hispanic" has been modified in each successive census. The 2000 Census asked if the person was "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino".[13]
The U.S. Office of Management and Budget currently defines "Hispanic or Latino" as "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race".[14] This definition excludes people of Portuguese origins, such as Portuguese Americans and Brazilian Americans. However, they are included in some government agencies' definitions. For example, the U.S. Department of Transportation defines Hispanic to include, "persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican, Central or South American, or others Spanish or Portuguese culture or origin, regardless of race."[15] This definition has been adopted by the Small Business Administration as well as many federal, state, and municipal agencies for the purposes of awarding government contracts to minority owned businesses. Still other government agencies adopt definitions that exclude people from Spain. Some others include people from Brazil, but not Spain or Portugal.
Further information: Racial demographics of the United States and Race and ethnicity in the United States Census and History of Latinos and Hispanics in the United States.
Fernando G. Rosa
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I would like if I may, to add my voice to this forum. Please notice I wrote voice and not opinion as my statement is based on fact.
Portuguese people are simply Lusitanians! Lusitania and Portucalense are the original names of areas known today as Portugal. Hispania was the name given to our neighbor, known today as Spain.
FYI-Galicia and Portucalense were once part of the Kingdom of Leon, which was primarily made up of Visigoths and Osgoths (Germanic tribes) mixed with Celtics (CeltIberians) and some Roman aka Latin. Todays' borders of Portugal and Spain do not reflect old Iberia's different races and cultures. The South of Iberia (today's south of Portugal and south of Spain) was highly influenced and mixed with moors, south of Spain especially more so as it took the Kings of Castille an additional 400 years to free their south from the Moors.
After reading the postings in this forum, it is easy to realize where the confusion of Hispanic and Lusitanian begins. Notice that every person who was born in Portugal or is 100% Portuguese descendant, has vehemently and correctly stated they are not Hispanic or Latino. They are of course, well aware of their history and true culture and thus rightly so want to defend them. I read somewhere, that Portuguese are a people who are both proud of their history and very knowledgeable about it when compared to people of other nationalities and their knowledge of their respective nations' history. We come from a small country who is constantantly having to fight not be erased from the "history map" in spite of all its contributions to the world (and those of us who know our history know that that fight started with our first hero, the Celtic Viriato fighting the Romans). We now have to fight not be confused not only with another country, but with people from another continent!
The people who claim Portuguese lineage and argue that Portuguese are Hispanic, such as Denis Medeiros, may have Portuguese genetics in them, but those who know and live the Portuguese culture can rightly tell this gentleman he has no right to force his opinion on a Portuguese as to how a Portuguese should consider himself or herself to be. Culturally, Mr. Medeiros you are not Portuguese. You probably like many Portuguese grew up in a community that benefited from close contact with a culture that has some similar aspects to ours, including religion, which provided a sense of relief when exposed to a culture very different from the Portuguese. As it requires less adjustments for a Portuguese to assimilate the Hispanic culture than the American, with the passing of time, it is easier to focus on the points that are similar between the Portuguese and the Hispanic (the same happens if living next to the French in Quebec, or next to American Italians). The cultural differences are forgotten. Thus, those who became "Hispanified" and have lost their Portuguese identity can in all honesty state they feel Hispanic. That's fine with me, go ahead and check Hispanic in your government forms, but please do not mention anywhere you are Portuguese, because you are not so culturally. Don't get me wrong, technically you are still not Hispanic,unless you have lineage from one of the countries that were once Spanish colonies. You as a person, your family perhaps, adopted another culture. So you feel Hispanic. However, you are still not descendant from Hispanic if your lineage is completely Portuguese and you should technically check European. Other Portuguese eventually just adopt the American culture and simply become Americans whose ancestry is European. So the answer is very clear, those who feel Portuguese, should check European as Portugal is a country in Western Europe. Those who are American, with Portuguese ancestry will need to check European, your family was the one who moved, not Portugal. Portugal stayed in Europe. If your family is mixed and Portuguese is in your lineage as well, you have a perfect right to check one of your races as European as well. If your family also came from Spain and not Latin America you should also check Europe and not Hispanic. As Hispanic refers to people descendant of or related to Spaniards or Spanish people it is proper to be used only for those people who are a result of the mixing of Spanish and the people from the Spanish colonies. The term Hispanic was coined in the US to refer to people from countries which were colonized by the Spanish. To deny these facts will not change their veracity.
Last, the color of the Portuguese is reflected in every nation in Europe, some may have higher numbers of one or another, but it is spread throughout the whole continent. Europe was a melting pot at one time that melted and now is melting again :) as recently we have had a great influx of people from other continents. Just know that the Portuguese come in every Shape, Size and Shade.
US is still in the first melting pot stages thus still feels the need to identify the different cultures coming together. It will become a more difficult process as times goes by and as the majority of people will become unable to identify their particular ancestry or will have too many to list. Thus the practice will disappear making this sort of conversation totally amusing to our grandchildren in the US who will only shake their heads and wonder what the fuss was about and to our Portuguese grandchildren it will make them proud that we stated and acknowledged the truth.
Muito obrigada, Maria Eugenia
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I am Portuguese and the one thing that is just so annoying to me is when people try to tell me what i am not. People do not understand that Portuguese people just as Americans come in every size and color!
Personally I do not consider myself hispanic because i don't speak spanish (but Portuguese) and am not from a country decending from Spain. I wish that the ignorant people of this world would wise up and check their facts before making assumptions of what someone is before knowing the history behind a country!
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I was born and raised in Connecticut, my first language was Portuguese. I consider myself, Portuguese. I always put other then write Portuguese.
My boyfriend was born in Portugal but raised here, made a big thing about this with the local construction union and now they have added Portuguese to the applications.
I am sorry but I get insulted when people say that they aren't Portuguese and say that Puerto Ricans and Portuguese are the same thing!
Where did history go so wrong?
Marcy Antunes.
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Honestly, it is so nice to read some of your comments on how xHispanicsx address you in Spanish. I live in a xHispanicx neighborhood and I feel I am the only Portuguese. It used to aggravate the hell out of me that people would just assume that I am xHispanicx or xSpanishx and address me in Spanish. We are in the USA, so talk to me in either English, or ask me first what my mother tongue is. They ask me if I am Argentinean or Colombian. I speak Spanish fluently and often. But I still have huge xfightsx trying to make the point across that my name is MendoNCa and not Mendoza. People still do not get it right!!!!
Just Venting!!! Thanks to all for your comments.
Mendonça, NJ USA
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I absolutely agree with most statements that say we are not Hispanic. We donxt speak Spanish, so we are neither Spanish nor Hispanic.
We are Latins, like Romanians, French, Italians and Spaniards. But we are not Latinos, as that would imply we live in central or south America.
However, I have to say that even though I grew up believing I was xwhite Caucasianx, most people do not see us like that.
I had the opportunity to talk to a Dutch who assured me Portuguese are Black. According to Black Haitians (Haiti), Portuguese are not xWhitex and according to most xLatinosx, from countries like Ecuador and Colombia we are not xwhite Caucasiansx either.
Please refer to Wikipedia x I found this to be very informative and thorough.
xThe Caucasian race, sometimes called the Caucasoid race,[1][2] is a concept 19th to early 20th c. scientific racism. This typological method was discredited and the concept is not relied on in scientific work related to humans.[3][4]
Note that the term Caucasian survives along with the similar classification "white" in many sociological studies. It is also retained with the corresponding terms Negroid and Mongoloid in a scientific sense in biological anthropology.x
In reality most of this terminology is WRONG and obsolete. The word race alone implies that an ethnic group has been isolated from any other group and we know that humans moved around and that even the xwhitex Germans or Irish are the result of an amalgamation of different ethnic groups.
I suppose that what ticks off most non-whites is the fact that we Portuguese deny, or rather donxt emphasize our Arabic/ Northern-African ancestry.
I feel that people residing in South America are very sensitive to xracex and where Portuguese people position themselves ethnically. They cannot forget the xgenocidex Iberians committed, but they easily forget the genocide committed by Germans not that long ago.
Many thanks for this xPortuguese Foundationx. Keep up the good work.
Hope my English was understandable as I am not a native speaker.
Mendonça
In the sates since 2001
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Joe, I am from xthe Continentx and studied in college in Portugal with people from all over Portugal and even many PALOPS (Paises Angolanos de Lingua Oficial Portuguesa).
My colleagues from the North (Braga and Guimaraes) used to tell all of us that we were xMourosx. They used to say that pass Porto we were all moors.
That was just a joke. Like people that tell a Portuguese from Azores or Madeira that they are not true Portuguese, that can only be a form of a tease.
All countries have regionalism within them, but I have to say compared to many other countries, where each region speaks their own dialect, like Austria, Portugal is a very cohesive country. I do agree with you though, that no one from one particular nationality should feel superior to any one from another one. I suppose you are more aware of that because you are so mixed and culturally so rich, Ixm sure. I believe that the world will change to become a better place with people like you that are xmulti-nationalx and have a true insight on various cultures. (Sorry about the English. Hope I conveyed the right message).
I am not an expert, but I donxt think that Portuguese was DRAWN from Gallego. There was once a language called xgalaico-portuguesx, which developed into Gallego and Portuguese. I think that would be more accurate.
Saludos, Greetings, Cumprimentos, Gruesse
Mendonça
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I have read a few of the opinions posted on the home page and would like to share my opinion. I have gone through much of my short life wondering why people were classified in sections and subsections. When I was asked what race I was when I was younger I would say white. Out of curiosity I asked my parents what Portuguese was classified as. Neither of them could give me a straight answer. My father told me he checked a Hispanic box on a form once and was corrected when a person told him that Portuguese was considered white. That didn't answer my question though. He told me the opinion of another person who probably had no idea of Portuguese history or culture. My mother told me it was white because Hispanic was used to classify people from Central and South America. I don't think its fair to classify the entire Portuguese community as white because they are from Europe. We have very different cultures than the Germans or the Finnish. I think we should have our own box to check because we are minorities too. Our people have come to America seeking opportunities just as people from South and Central America have. Our people have gone through unique struggles and all of this to be classified under as ,in my opinion, having no unique culture at all. I think not. I vote for Luso-Hispanic as OUR box to check. I apologize for any discrepancies in my letter.
Obrigado,
Patrick Ramos
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From the editor:
Be careful when hyphenating the word Hispanic, it has different meanings for different people from different parts of the world. Either youxre Portuguese or Hispanic. The word Hispanic is not common in the Iberian Peninsula. As a nationality youxre either Spanish or Portuguese. These are the only nations that make up the Iberian Peninsula.
As for Race the following is the definition, a: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics.
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A Mexican with Portuguese Jewish Ancestry - Jose Garcia
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Dear PAHR Foundation
As someone who works in the USA, and in Portugal, Spain and France on a continual basis due to my work requirements I believe that people need to understand a few facts prior to making assessments based on ignorant terminology.
Definitions roots:
Latins: People from Latium and their capital Rome. Italian
Hispania: The peninsula ALREADY had a name when the Roman Empire got there. It was IBERIA.
Lusitania: Area that was occupied by the Lusitanians prior to the Roman Empire's conquest in IBERIA.
After aproximately two hundred of fighting, the Romans finally conquered Lusitania and the peninsula was named by the Romans as: Hispania Baetica, Hispania Taraconensis, and Lusitania.
Hispanics: Basicly people that can have some Spanish culture and descent or were heavily influenced by the culture(includes Mexicans, Cubans, Panamanians, etc). DOES NOT INCLUDE BRASILIANS.
Latinos/Latinas: Tries to indentify/lump together people that have a culture/language that was heavily influenced by countries that speak languages derived from old latin. Used primarily for people in LATIN AMERICA.
Since the combination of European blood with African and local Indian tribes produced mixed race people, the ignoramus populace did not have a label for them. Therefore, Hispanic or Latino/Latina became and is still the identifier for people who are not just speaking Spanish but are considered mestizo/mestico, or in other words, not white....
So every time a Spaniard or Portuguese, French or Italian identifies themselves as Hispanic, Latino/a, they are actually stating that they are mixed race when actually they are not.
A good example is when an American out of ignorance congratules or wishes a Portuguese person a happy Cinco De Mayo, or instead of a thank you they say "Gracias". That right there shows you how they see you just because they think that you are Hispanic or Latino.
If Hispanics applies to Spaniards, then it should apply to Holland, Phillipines and Italy because they were colonies of the Spanish empire just like Mexico or Columbia. And Latin should apply to half of Canada and other places in the Caribean because they were colonized by the French (and they still speak French today). But they are not.
So what that tells you is that if you sucumb to the label, then you deserve it. I do not. I am very proud to be of Portuguese descent or Lusitanian. Do not INSULT me by calling me Hispanic or Latino.
If I was a Mexican, then I would not want to be called anything other than Mexican, because to call me Latino or Hispanic would be and insult to my heritage.
Proud to be Portuguese American or Luso American or Portuguese
Regards,
Professor John D. Pereira Ph.D.: Engineering & Physics
Location: USA/Portugal
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I seem to recall that on the Iberian peninsula, there were two separate countries: hispania and lusitania.
Consequently, the Spanish are called Hispanics and the Portuguese are called Luso.
Julia Leite
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Dear Sirs:
Continental Portuguese are White European, plain and simple. By virtue of language and culture Portuguese people are Latin, but hardly Latino or Hispanic.
Genetically, continental native / indigenous Portuguese are primarily a combination of Celtic, Roman, Visigoth, Suevi with a minor ad-mixture of Berber and Arab (mainly found in the southern part of the country, Azores and Madeira).
If you are from the Azores or Madeira you are White European as well. The majority of people from the islands originated from the Alentejo and Algarve and some from Flanders and parts of France. There was a small non European ad-mixture in the 15th and 16th, but it was hardly significant enough to change the ethnic / racial make-up of the islands.
There are small groups of people in Portugal who do not share the Lusitanian genetic and cultural background, but such people are quite few. Some are mixed, distant descendants of Black Africans or Gypsy groups. Others are immigrants originating from Brazil, Eastern Europe, Africa and parts of Asia.
Simply put, we Portuguese are White European with a Latin culture. We are also Iberian, but hardly Hispanic.
Henry Avis
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U.S. Census Bureau does not consider Portuguese to be Hispanic
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Portugal is not Hispanic. I did study in Lisbon, and the way the Portuguese see themselves is as White/European. There is many factual evidence of it too. The misunderstanding steems from the fact that Portuguese is a Latin Language, and so is French, Italian and Spanish.
This report should be revised and corrected. It is unpleasant and makes little sense.
EuroBoy
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My grandfather name on by mother side was DE Andrade on my father side there name was Reposa.
VERY PROUD OF BEING PORTUGUESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOR THE NUT THAT SAID HE DOESN'T LIKE AMERICA AND SAID THAT HE'S GLAD HE DOESN'T LIVE HERE. GLAD HE DOESN'T LIVE HEAR WE HAVE TO MANY NUT'S ALREADY HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!
PAT REPOSA
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Brazilian or Hispanic
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If the question is even asked as to whether Portuguese or Hispanic, then we have to start off with the acknowledgement that the question is an American one, because the term Hispanic when used in comparison to Portuguese, can only relate to the difference between what are perceived as "Latinos" and the other races.
(Click to read the rest of the letter)
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Hispanic or Portuguese
Yesterday, I suggested to those that misrepresent the Portuguese that they should use the US Census Bureau as a resource for the right classification. However, if you want a quick resource, please search for "Hispanic" on google and go to the WIkipedia link (The Free Encyclopedia) and you will notice world pap of Hispanic countries, Portugal is not one of them.
It is sad that some People of Portuguese descent misrepresent themselves. It is also sad that some Portuguese want to have it both ways in the aspect that want to consider themselves as a minority so that their business may receive government funds and then want to be classified as "White" or "Caucasian" for other purposes which they really are. This contradiction will confuse others and it is our fault. We should not have it both ways. Just consider yourself Portuguese and European and not "Hispanic".
Regards,
Helena Lopes
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"Failing to See The Whole Picture" by Paulo DaCosta
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You know I read all of the comments and I just have to say this is depressing to me. It really makes me want to move out of America. I am a Portuguese, Spanish, Irish and Native American mix and am very offended by the way people are arguing about a culture. Most sadly my mom's culture. Why can't we just be Portuguese if we are Portuguese. Who cares if we don't fit into a category? I would rather check off other than be ridiculed for not knowing what I am in America's eye's. This is truely sad. Why should I care what the American government wants to categorize me as. If you are from Latin America then you should show the Portuguese love because if it wasn't for Magellan then you wouldn't exist. I look at all Latin Americans as cousins. And I definately consider Spain as a sibling country. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. And we certainly have similarities regaurdless of a stupid American census poll. Can't we all just get along?
A fellow portuguese;
Racheal Smith
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"Who is American? by José Alberto Rato"
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I would like to say one thing: Since the term Hispanic comes from what the Romans originally named the Iberian Peninsula, Hispania-- which means the land of the rabbits, and has evolved into the word Espana, the Spanish word for Spain-- it cannot be correctly applied to other peoples who live outside the Iberian Peninsula, ie Central and South Americans. Skin color is not what defines an Hispanic (Spaniard); hair and skin color of Spaniards vary greatly. There are Spaniards who are "darker" than the typical South American; there are those as light as the typical Englishman.
Being of both Spanish and Portuguese descent and a North American, I am not concerned about defining "racial purity" with the usage of the word, Hispanic; I would like only to preserve the cultural heritage of Spain by reserving the word, Hispanic, for the description of "the people of the land of the rabbits".
Hope Vega
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@Mr. Denis M. Medeiros
1. Of course portuguese are considered latins.They are latins!!! But they(we) are not latinos.There's a big difference.
2. I don't want to tell you how you should define yourself but if you have 100% portuguese ancestry then you are not a latino!You can call yourself latino, as well as i can call myself chinese, but does that make me a chinese just because i call myself chinese?Obviously not!
3. You separate portuguese and azoreans??! That says it all!
4. I am not saying that all portuguese people should call themselves white.I' m just wondering how/why so many portuguese identify themselves with south/central America when there are other definitions like Portuguese or simply European.
@Mr. da Gama
You wrote that Portuguese were not considered white because they came for work.
Does that mean if someone comes to Hawai ( or the USA) for work he's not white?
What's about the irish people then?Are they non-white just because they worked in construction or something?
Miguc
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Mr. Aradas, thanks for your participation:
1. The Census in the United States provides the Government with valuable information.
2. The USA have more than 400 million people in 50 states, from different backgrounds and they all live together in peace.
3. The Census is a tool used all over the world by every government.
4. Some may not agree with the questions asked, others do. The answers are considered valuable.
5. This forum is designed to receive opinions from people of Portuguese ancestry living in the USA who may or may not agree with the Census questions. The present trend is to add more groups, due to the fact that in the last census, 1/4 of the population in the USA were considered Hispanic. Many did not agree.
6. This forum does not endorse racism or anything leading to it. Please separate culture from racism.
The Editor
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I won't enter the debate of whether Portuguese people should be considered Hispanic. It's inconsecuential. The root of the problem stems from the neurotic obsession on the part of the USA government of putting labels on people and classifying them into neat categories according to their appearance and origin. This is a preposterous, banal pursuit to say the least and, at its worst, it promotes popular prejudice and perpetuates misconceptions and ignorance of the most elementary facts of ethnicity, history and geography. Racial classifications are now obsolete, both scientifically and sociologically, and will become utterly ludicrous in the future as people mix and ethnic barriers collapse.
More and more individuals stem from multiple origins, and that fact, thank heavens, will contribute to people judging others more objectively as individuals, not as Mr. or Ms. X, who should behave in a particular way or like certain things because of the colour of their skin and considering where they or their families originally came from.
And that applies not only to suposedly ignorant people from the States, but also to people spreading comments such as "we don't want to be considered Hispanics because "Hispanic" applies only to Spain and we all know that Spain has always been a thorn on Portugal's side."
Yes, I'm Spanish, from Galicia, my first language is Galician, which has the same origin as Portuguese (namely, Medioeval Galego-Portuguêse) and I love Portugal. No one in Spain or Portugal with an atom of intelligence in them can ignore the fact that there is a lot in common between the two countries. Aren't those comments perpetuating the same irrational prejudices that many of you are subjected to by racial classification (the real problem when transferred to popular perception, not the specific term used) when you put all Spaniards in the same sack with the label "undesireable neighbours" on it?
This debate should not be taking place. If people did not pay so much attention to ethnicity, emotions would not be running so high. Don't fuel it. Just ignore it. Or better even, protest against the irrationality of the whole ratial classification system, not just against its inevitable inaccuracies. Join those who regard themselves as individuals that are not conditioned by their ethnicity, either as a self-perception or as the external perception of others.
Just a final consideration: I can have more in common with someone from Beijing in today's world than with someone from my home town, skin tone and ethnical origin have little to do with who we are and will have even less in the future. Don't let the sociocultural environment you live in determine your essence as an individual. FIGHT THE INJUSTICE OF THE SYSTEM. BE DISCERNING INDIVIDUALS.
Carlos Aradas
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"From Frederico Muñoz, Southern European"
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Should a Portuguese or someone from Portuguese Ancestry check the census form as
1. Portuguese 2. Hispanic 3. Other
Within the same household husband and wife, one may check Portuguese for the husband/ and Hispanic for the husband/wife. In the USA Hispanic means that the person came from a Spanish speaking country, mostly in the Americas.
The trend in this forum is that most Portuguese, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation would check the census box as "Portuguese", many would like that question to be removed. Governments, politicians, all over the world, like to know where their citizens came from and what they represent, culture, religion, etc. because they think better services and support may be provided.
Hope that helps.
Manuel Mira, North Carolina
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I would like to say one thing: Since the term Hispanic comes from what the Romans originally named the Iberian Peninsula, Hispania-- which means the land of the rabbits, and has evolved into the word Espana, the Spanish word for Spain-- it cannot be correctly applied to other peoples who live outside the Iberian Peninsula, ie Central and South Americans. Skin color is not what defines an Hispanic (Spaniard); hair and skin color of Spaniards vary greatly. There are Spaniards who are "darker" than the typical South American; there are those as light as the typical Englishman.
Being of both Spanish and Portuguese descent and a North American, I am not concerned about defining "racial purity" with the usage of the word, Hispanic; I would like only to preserve the cultural heritage of Spain by reserving the word, Hispanic, for the description of "the people of the land of the rabbits".
Hope Vega
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I'm not sure if this will get posted on the website, but I have a few comments. I am a Portuguese-American currently in the United States Air Force. Pretty dark skin, dark hair, and hazel eyes. I understand very little Portuguese but I can speak and understand quite a bit of Spanish. Both of my parents are Portuguese. My mother is Portuguese, maiden name Duarte, and her side of the family moved to Hawaixi in the late 1800xs early 1900xs, not sure of the exact date. My father, Da Gama, was in route to America from Portugal when he was born in 1961 in Caracas, Venezuela. When I joined the Air Force we had to put our ethnicity and race on our paperwork. My recruiter put xHispanic/of latin descentx is what the form says for the air force, but it also said other under ethnicity. Which confused me because I never claimed myself as Hispanic, but Portuguese. My parents divorced when I was young and I grew up in Hawaixi. I visited Massachusetts and Rhode Island where my fathers family is in the summer, but spent the rest of the years in Hawaixi. In Massachusetts the Portuguese seem like they are way more traditional, but seem like they consider themselves as Portuguese onlyxkind of like Italians. They donxt consider themselves white, but also not Hispanic, it seems to me the younger generation considers themselves Hispanic in an almost to fit in kind of way. In Hawaixi, a mostly Asian and Polynesian populated state, Portuguese are everywhere, but usually mixed with other ethnicities. There are the full blooded Portuguese-Americans there like myself, but most Portuguese are mixed with other ethnicities. The first immigrants to work the cane fields in Hawaixi where Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, and yes Portuguese. Because of the fact that my family immigrated to Hawaixi for work, the islands do not considere Portuguese to be white at all. The Portuguese brought many traditions to the island from music to food. The ukulele was brought by the Portuguese but a different playing style was invented by the Hawaiians. Many types of food like malasadas, different types of bread, pao doce, and Linguica (called Portuguese sausage in Hawaii) and there are many Portuguese named streets and also Portuguese churches on some of the islands. Since I have been referred to as Portuguese or xportageex my whole life being called White or Hispanic makes me angry. Not that I have problems with either, but I am proud to be Portuguese, so I want to be called Portuguese. In Hawaixi and the North East USA people usually can tell I am of Latin descent with out a problem. But since I joined the Air Force people from everywhere all think different things. Portuguese people are unique...our languagexour culture...our profiles. There are dark skinned and fair skinned, dark eyed and blue/green eyed, dark haired and light haired, we are unique. Nelly Furtado has very dark hair but very light eyes and she lets everyone know she is Portuguese. I think everyone should just say we are of Latin descent, but we are Portuguese. Not white, not Hispanic, not LatinoxPortuguese! Be proud that you are Portuguese.
Michael Da Gama
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Mr. Medeiros;
The following is for your information:
1. The Portuguese are a minority like many others and represented accordingly.
2. The Azoreans, Madeirans, Minhotos, Algarvios, etc. are Portuguese, not a separate nationality.
3. The Portuguese-Americans have a separate Caucus in Congress just like the Hispanics.
4. The Portuguese are well represented nationally by PALCUS, the Portuguese-American Leadership Council of the United States and is based in Washington, DC.
5. The CHLI recognizes the Americans of Hispanic and Portuguese descent separately not not as one group. PALCUS also does the same.
The Congressional Hispanic Leadership Institute (CHLI) works to promote alternative approaches to challenges faced by more than 40 million Americans of Hispanic and Portuguese descent living in the United States today.
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Dear Miguel;
You are incorrect. Portuguese are considered Latins. A third of our members in our ogranization are from Spain to answer your question. We have Mexicans, Argentinians, Brazilians, Columbians, Venezualians, Azoreans, Spainards, Portuguese, Puerto Ricans, etc. In Congress, the Hispanic Caucus was recently changed to reflect that Portuguese ancestry is welcomed to the group. I again identify as a Latino--that is my business not yours. I am pleased to learn that you don't live in the United States and I am sure you are making a contribution of some sort where you currently reside. The Portugeuse are under-represented minorites in the United States. How you identify though is a question of personal self -identity. So don't ask me to call myself something that I don't think I am not or am not comfortable with and I won't ask you to do the same.
Sincerely;
Denis M Medeiros
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@ Mr. Denis Medeiros
You are right when you say that Portuguese and Spanish heritage are embraced.
We come from the iberian peninsula (Hispania).
But just because someone comes from the iberian peninsula doesn't mean he is Hispanic!
But let me ask you a question:
You wrote that you are president of a Latino organization.So let me ask you: how many Spanish (from Spain),Italian,French,Romanian people do you have in your organization?
Because this nations( and Portugal) are the real Latins( not Latinos) from Europe.
You may be Latin but you are surely not a Latino.There is a big difference between Latins and Latinos.Latins are white, based on their ethnicity and heritage because they come from Europe; Latinos are not white because they are a mix of many races.
By the way how could Latinos ask you if you are not a Latino?
Just look at the countries where they come from! A very mixed population where there are some dark skinned people as well as white skinned people.For them it's all the same!
Man, You cannot imagine how happy i am that i don't live in the U.S.A ; strange country.
Miguel Martins
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I am appalled at the misconception presented in this forum about what some individuals consider Hispanics. Many would argue that it is offensive and incorrect to use skin color to define what is Hispanic. Using that logic one would need to reclassify blacks based solely on skin color--those with darker shades are more black and identify more than those lighter in shade. This would be very inappropriate and a form of racisim to use color to define a group of peoples. This could suggest an element of racism by my portuguese kin in being associated with Hispanics and prefer to be called white out of shame or being labelled a "minority". Every university in the United States and the Library of Congress considers Portuguese in their Hispanic Studies offerings. It is this academic piece that has stood the test of time and will continue to influence laws. Time magazine got it right!!! In the end-it is how the individual self identifies, which is a private decision and is no one elses business. I am currently President of Alianza, a campus wide Latino organization at my institution, and no other Latinos have ever questioned my NOT being Latino since I am Portuguese In fact, Portuguese and Spanish heritage are embraced! It is time to stop fighting wars between feudal kings fought centuries ago. This is the 21st century. In fact, I would argue that since Hispanic came from Hispania the region the Romans gave to the Iberian peninsula shared by Spain and Portugal, we are ceeding our heritage to Spain as being the only decendants from Hispanola. In some circles I have heard Portuguese refer to themselves as Luso-Hispanic, denoting their Portuguese roots.
Denis M Medeiros, PhD, RD
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I just can't read it anymore.
Portuguese people considering themselves as Latinos? How stupid is that? What has a guy from Portugal in common with a guy from South/Central America (notice that I mean native people here, not some blond haired people from South America, because they are European, more or less)? The answer is language (Brazil) and that's it. Just look at one guy from South America and one from Portugal. You can't say they are similar! If people consider Portuguese to be Latinos then they can't consider South Americans to be Latinos because racially, they don't have much in common.
I can't understand people like Mr. Sean Heuer who write things like: "I am half Portuguese and half whitex. I mean, that's nonsense!
For example let's think about a couple of Europeans who are known in America and are considered white
.
There is Catherina Zeta Jones. Actress from Wales who has dark hair, dark eyes and a dark complexion.
There is Collin Pharrel. Actor from Ireland. Dark hair, dark eyes and, letxs be honest, not the lightest complexion.
There is Sean Connery from Scotland with dark hair and eyes.
There is Heidi Klum from Germany. She has naturally dark hair and dark eyes.
and last but not least
Freddy Mercury (Queen) from England with dark hair, dark eyes, dark complexion.
And I could go no and on for hours. So let's be serious. If the people on the list are considered as white in America, so should be the Portuguese. What are the qualifications to be considered as white in America? Is that an Anglo-Background? Northern European background? Or is there something else? This is for me as European very strange, because it seems like if somebody with a darker complexion comes from north Europe they are white. But if the same man/woman comes from south Europe they are not white. Well you see that here must be something wrong here. White people cannot just have blond haired and blue eyes otherwise the people on the list would be non-white! That's why Ixm saying that Mr. Sean Heuer's argumentation is non-sense. What should you care about what your friends or everyone else says? Is there anyone of your friends who Is an anthropologist?
I consider myself as white whatever people say and I am proud to be Portuguese, European and white (not in a nationalistic way).
Miguel Martins (I think with this name I will never be white in America)
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HISPANICS!?
After coming across with an article in the on-line edition of xTimex, that labelled Portuguese immigrants as Hispanic, I couldnxt avoid feeling outraged. As a Portuguese, born and bred - though already prepared to hear it from some American tourist- I would never thought that I would ever come to read such an ignorant thing in one of the most prestigious magazines in the world. Hispanic refers to someone with origin in a Spanish speaking country or in Spain itself. Calling Portugal, -which being the European country with the oldest boundaries certainly deserves a little more respect than that!- Hispanic, would be regarded by Portuguese (from Portugal) as most offensive, for these two countries have a history of rivalry that goes back more than a few centuries. However, what shocked me the most was reading in one of the letters a young boy claiming to be half-Portuguese and half-white!!! This really is beyond my understanding, and it certainly is news for the rest of the Portuguese people who all this years foolishly believed that Portuguese was their nationality, and not their race. Portugal is the result of a mix of people and cultures. From the roman presence to the Germanic invasions and more recently the African immigration lots of factors contributed to the actual path, in which my brown skinned girl friend, my blond cousin, my black friend and me can all be considered Portuguese! Calling us all Hispanic would hardly make any sense. Your country really has an issue with labels. Is cataloguing people that important? I fail to see what good will come of it. If I understand, declaring to be Hispanic will be legally beneficialx but would the law allow a Portuguese person to declare as such?
Please be proud of your heritage! Portugal is NOT Spain !
André Pires, a Portuguese from Portugal
ps: sorry if my english isn't perfect
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I am half Portuguese and half white. I distinguish being Portuguese from being white because I am treated differently for being Portuguese so why should I fill out on forms that I am white. My mom was born in Pico in the Azores and my Dad is an European mutt. My mom is now married to a Portuguese man. I was born in California and I live in San Jose, whose population is primarily made up of Mexicans and Portuguese. I can speak Spanish and Portuguese, but neither fluently, and many of my friends are Latinos. Just last week I was asking my mom what I nationality I should circle on my SAT forms. She told me that she used to put Latino, but now puts Caucasian on her government forms. I have also put other and disagree with my mom about putting white. I have black hair and year round tan skin and most of my friends call me Mexican or "beaner" despite countless times telling them that I am Portuguese. I have gotten many funny responses from people when I tell them I am Portuguese. My favorites are "Oh so your Mexican" and "Oh you are from Puerto Rico." I am in high school right now and I feel that I should be able to receive scholarships to college for being Latino if I am treated differently for being Latino and since most people think I am Mexican or Hispanic. I am very proud to be Portuguese, but one thing that upsets me is the Portuguese population in America who dislikes the Hispanics in America. I think that the Portuguese in America need to maybe be a little less nationalistic to avoid being prejudiced to other nationalities. I am very glad that this discussion forum has interested so many people and I hope my ideas are shared on your forum, Thank You.
Sean Heuer
Dear Sean,
There is nothing wrong in being Hispanic, and if any Portuguese does not like Hispanics, it must be for a personal reason, don't pay attention to them. Many Portuguese are married to Hispanics and they do not have problems because of that. They're Bi-cultural and richer. If your heritage is Portuguese then you're Portuguese. You're also Latino in the sense that you speak two Latin languages. Portuguese people comes in all colors, so whatever color you are does not define your heritage. Being Portuguese outside Portugal is not a nationality, it is more of a cultural way of life. In the end be proud of what you are and carry that pride within yourself.
Good luck and ignore stereotype labels. Most people do not know any better.
Manuel Mira, North Carolina
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Dear Isabelle Maria,
You are right. People should not be labeled, much less stereotyped. All it does is divide people and prejudge them. We should all try to treat people as individuals. But it's so hard in this crazy society and world.
As far as South Americans not having their own identity: Do you mean racially or ethnically? Well...they are not the only people on this earth who are not so-called "pure" (whatever that means...again, there we go again with dividing and labeling):
Russians were conquered by Genghis Khan, a Mongolian, many years ago. The blood flows in their veins. There is an old Russian saying, "scratch a Russian and you'll find a Tatar". Most African Americans have European ancestry (whether the United States wants to admit it or not). We know about the "mixing" that happened in Latin America, courtesy of Spain and Portugal, etc. Even the Portuguese and Spaniard are mixed: Moors, Romans, Celtics, Germanic, Jewish, etc., passed through the Iberian Peninsula. Where do you think Nuno Bettencourt and Antonio Banderas got their gorgeous, dark looks from?
No one is pure. If you go way, way back, everyone, even the most blondest, blue-eyed person from Iceland, originated from Africa. Any anthropologist, scientist and biologist will back that up.
There is only one race. The human race. So all this division among people is just a plain waste of time.
Take care.
Diana Castro
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I am from Lisbon, portugal. I am 35 years old and I think that people in the states are super confused about ethnicity. What do the real latins (Romanian, French, Portuguese , Italians and Spanish) have in common with South americans. Not much really.
I feel bad for South American people it is like they cant have their own ethnicity. They are always trying to find a new name for them.
Off course the portuguese are not hispanic the kingdom of Portugal was established before the kingdom of Spain. I don't even think that Spaniards are Hispanic, they are just Spanish.
One cannot take people from different continents and group them all into a group. Latin is merelly a language root not a race.
Although I think people from South America are wonderful people with such rich culture what do I a girl from Lisbon have to do with for example " Mexico"
Hispanic can only meen latin when refering to the peoples of countries conquered by Spain.
And if hispanic meens brown skin then the blonde people in Argentina would then be non-white. And most children from Spain are blonde anyway when they are little and their hair becomes darker later so then are they born white and become brown later?
Another thing we don't call any of the original peoples of Africa that speak French or Portuguese Latins. Why? Because they are African.
It would be wiser to group people by country and then Continent. Actually, we should not group people at all.
Isabelle Maria Fernandes Tomas Mcfadden, Seal Beach, California
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I would just like to clear something up so people will not make this mistake in the future. Hispanic is a word made by the United States government for the census. It has nothing to do with the word "hispana". The word hispanic means you are a person from a country that speaks Spanish. So if you are of Portuguese decent and you put on a peace of paper that you are hispanic you are lying.
Marcelo Aguilar
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Wow. I've enjoyed reading these entries. I am not of Portuguese descent but my father is southern Italian and my mother is mostly Anglo-saxon.I guess that makes me "Anglo-Latin'?
If I were Portuguese, I would not want to call myself 'Hispanic' as Portugal is not/never was a colony of Spain and the Portuguese language is quite distinct from Castellano spoken in Spain. Suffice to say that even though Caucasian is the 'White' race, not all Caucasians are really that white. People from India or North Africa can be quite dark but are still Caucasians. I remember back in high school, one of my teachers said that she needed to take a count of all 'non-white' kids. There were no blacks in my class but the teacher asked for kids who were Asian or Spanish or Italian. I immediately became embarrased. Having blondish hair and blue eyes, I always thought that I was white. It seems ridiculous that a person with my complexion would be considered non-white based on some idiotic governmental classification system but there are plenty of Italians, Greeks, Spanish or Turkish Americans that are quite dark and appear to be visually quite different from Northern Europeans.
I agree that they should have a 'Mediterranean' category or something on forms to break down the white race into subgroups. Why should an Italian or Portuguese-American be lumped into the same group as a Norwegian? I read that in Brazil, they have a panel that judges your race/ethnicity by appearance. You may be called 'white' even if you have Black African ancestry-it all depends on your appearance. I mean, isn't it ridiculous that someone like Cameron Diaz or Emilio Estevez can claim to be 'non-white' or Multiracial when they have blond hair and blue eyes and fair skin? Also, let's be historically AND politically correct. Italians are more Latin than probably anybody else in the world today. They occupy the same space [Italy, Rome] as the original Latins and the language is closer to pure Latin than Spanish, French, Portuguese or Romanian [In Italian, as in Latin, the plural of most words is designated by use of an 'e' at the end of the word as opposed to an 's' as in French or Spanish]. That said, Italy has been occupied by Greeks, French, Spaniards, Moors, Vikings and various other people over the centuries. I may not be 'Latino' as in 'LatinoAmericano' (often a mestizo or mullato person from Latin America) but I am definitely 'Latin-American' as an American of Italian descent.
Rick Pavia or Riccardo Prospero Pavia
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Portuguese-Americans and Hispanic by George Perry, Ph. D.
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Dear Dr. Perry;
Just a note to let you know that I enjoyed your scholarly article on Portuguese-Americans: the Lost Hispanics. I saw it on the Portuguese American Resource web-site. I am Portuguese and am President of the Hispanic Faculty group here at Kansas State University. I use to be at Ohio State and was active in the Hispanic culture there as well. There is the misconception that the term Hispanics refers only to Spanish. It really refers to the Iberian Peninsula in which Portugal is a part of. Also, I am Azorean and you make a good case as to the colonialization part of the Portuguese empire being similar to that of the Spanish empire.
There seems to be a feeling among Portuguese that there is something wrong or offensive with being considered Hispanic or a minority. It is troubling when you see some government forms excluding Portuguese in their definition of Hispanic, It sounds like the old "Irish need not apply" mentality from a century ago.
In any event, nice work.
Best;
Denis
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To my dear beloved from SdM. from Canada:
I'll make a deal with you: lets stop stereotyping people, okay? There are good and bad people. It only leads to narrow-minded nationalism and hatred. Funny, how feelings are passed down from generation to generation, whether one is Spanish, Portuguese, Armenian, Irish, etc. We are all conditioned to react in a certain way (yes - I've studied sociology).
I was just talking from positive experiences I had, and of course you from negatives. I'm sorry if I offended you. All I'm saying is that you can't categorize all people: I know "galegos" who actually get along better with Portuguese than people from Castille; I meet a Brazilian who loves cracking jokes about Portuguese and feels that his people actually "improved" the Portuguese language; my Afro-Cuban friend feels more at ease with a Brazilian than she does with a white Argentine, etc.
Oh, by the way: I was born in the United States...and I don't look down on Canadians: on the contrary, I love them and admire their education system and politics. They are well loved around the world especially Europe and Latin America...something you should me proud of.
Cheers and God Bless,
Diana Castro
New York City
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Hello,
I was reading the latest entries in the debate about wether or not Portuguese people should be refered to as Hispanic.
In regards to Diana Castro's letter in which she wonders why Portuguese people still hold a 'grudge' over a Spanish invasion and asks how we would feel if the Brasilians or any of the other countries Portugal colonised, felt the same 'angst' about us?
This is mixing apples and oranges.
Most Portuguese people I know ( myself included ) have nothing but love for countries like Brasil and East Timor. We consider them not to be colonies but to be our 'cousins' and would like nothing more than to see all those nations do well. I was in the Açores while the conflict between Indonesia and East Timor raged (And the world turned its back with the exception of Portugal, who despite a lack of influence on the world stage, refused to shut up). I recall seeing "Free East Timor" spray painted on a wall in one of the bigger cities on São Miguel island.
I dont believe we feel that same kind of love and wish for well being from the Spanish. They tend to show Portuguese people the same kind of disdain and arrogance that Americans reserve for Canadians on the other side of the border.
So excuse me if my countrymen and women are not too crazy with the comparison. We may have been children from the same mother, centuries ago....but we have evolved into being two completely different entities.
And we are not hispanic.
Thank God.
S.dM, Canada
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Hi, as a person who speaks both Portuguese and Spanish, I just want to clarify one thing: there is no such thing as a Hispanic Race! That term was invented by the US census bureau because they were ignorant in distinguishing the different Spanish-Speaking nations, people and cultures. Therefore, a white Spaniard is lumped in with a Black Cuban, who is lumped in with a Mexican Indian...so much for American education! Taking our anger out on people who speak Spanish is not cool, because of another personxs ignorance.
What I also find ironic is how we, as Portuguese-speaking people, still hold a grudge against Spain because of the 60 year invasion back then many years ago. Well...should the Brazilians be angry with us for colonizing them? Everyone has gone through war - even Spain was invaded by the Moors. Get a life! If you want to get angry, why not vent our anger on being under brutal Roman rule thousands of years ago?
How about working for unity? Most of my Hispanic friends love Portuguese and Brazilians and consider us their brothers. And no, they do not call us Hispanic, but fellow Latinos as well. Peace
Diana Castro
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Please see below an e-mail I sent to Time magazine regarding the article recently published about "most influencial hispanics in America" which lists Portugal as an hispanic country.
We are Latin, like the Spanish, Italian, French, etc., but not hispanic.
Thanks,
Daniel Neves
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:23:28 -0500, "dneves" <dgneves@fastmail.us said:
I have been a subscriber and enjoying TIME magazine for many years.
I always thought highly of the magazine due to the writers' knowledge and content of the articles. To my surprise, page 56 of the magazine includes Portugal as listed as a "country of ancestry". I have no idea why at this day and age anybody thinks of Portugal as a Hispanic country. We do not speak Spanish, never did, as well as our former "colonies", in particular Brasil which is surrounding by Spanish speaking countries. It is important that you correct the statement, if not for any other reason on behalf of your readers that reserve better and CORRECT information.
Thank you for the attention, and please advise to when a correction statement will be made in the magazine.
D. Neves
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I am 21 years old, I was born in Canada and my mother is 5 generations Canadian. My father was born in Portugal, he is a mix of Brazilian and Spanish also.
I take after my father in appearance almost 90%. Growing up in a small town of mainly Anglo-descent(I'm talking Irish, Scottish, British....) I was made fun of, because my hair was dark, my skin was still tanned in the winter and I had more hair on my arms than the other girls(they would call me yellow girl, in fact I am olive colour). I was so embarrassed of my last name "Moleirinho" everyone wanted to know what it was, but I pretended I didn't know.
I always loved portuguese food, culture and language but would hide that from my friends because they didn't understand it. It wasn't until my first trip to Portugal that I realized, I should be proud of my background, I love the country, the people and even Fado! I am no longer embarrassed of being of Portuguese descent in fact I am proud!
I am confused because people can't figure out what I am, I am told that I look Latino or Brazilian, some say I look even Moroccan (I am so confused) Portuguese people call me "morena" I don't really know how to classify my self when it comes to the race stuff.
I know I don't look like a typical white girl but I check off white.
My boyfriend is from Uruguay and he is considered Hispanic. My skin is much more darker than his and people thinks he's the European not me. I think that everyone is different and we should stop trying to fit everyone into a little box. I am a MUTT and I will never fit in but I am proud that I am different. Hispanic, no. Latino, yes! thanks for letting me share my story
Alexandra Moleirinho
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I do not know if you are still accepting entries for the Hispanic debate, but here is my contribution:
I am writing in regards to the debate Ixve just read on your website about whether or not Portuguese people should be considered 'Hispanic'. I am the product of Azorean parents and have never considered myself to be such. I actually take great offense at being considered Spanish, asked if I speak Spanish, told I look Spanish because it seems few people I run into, besides North Africans, seem to realize their is a different country next door to Spain ( rolls eyes ) Why should Portuguese people succumb to the ignorance of others?
I am extremely proud of my cultural heritage, will be back to the Azores to visit family soon and look forward to seeing the Portuguese National Football team do well at next year's World Cup. I have nothing but love for my people and hope they teach their kids to be proud of their heritage ( not in a crazy, self-absorbed nationalistic way but...you know what I mean).
And a special message to Portuguese parents who have daughters. Portuguese history is written on my face am I not the least bit ashamed to not look 'white'. But that wasnxt always so. I remember being told by a classmate in grade school that my dark hair reminded him of witchesx hair. So of course I tried to lighten it. For years I was brainwashed by North American pop culture into believing that only Nordic beauty was beautiful. But as I got older, I developed a sense of perspective and got in touch with my roots. I will never be brainwashed again. Donxt let anyone ever tell your little Luso-Princesses that they arenxt beautiful.
We all are......in all our incarnations.
Susana De Medeiros. Montreal, Canada
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Sir! Read some of the comments about if Portuguese or Brazilians are/or should be considered Hispanics. Well NO! First Hispanic refers to all countries that speak the Spanish lanquage whether pure Spain or dialect. Many countries do, thanks to the back of the Portuguese explorers. And the pope's compromise excusex because most other nationalities can't distinguish one Spanish dialect to the other nor from Portuguese to Italian they assume we are toox
Denise Virgil
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My name is David and I was born in Lajes-Praia de Vitoria, Azores Portugal. I am Portuguese and very proud to say it. I was adopted at a very young age and raised by U.S parents but I did not become a citizen until 6 Sept 2000. I am very proud of that also. My Portuguese name is David Guilherme Sousa Medeiros and when others look at the spelling, they believe it to be Spanish and Italian. I have never
been back to Portugal but I have met my biological family, I am sad to say that I have lost track of them though. I was in the military and my first meeting was the day before I deployed to Somalia. I came back and went to visit them in Fall River Mass. I could not believe what was happening and felt as though I did not belong. I wish I would have felt as I do now and kept in contact. I have always called myself
Portuguese, not Spanish or Hispanic. While in the military I was classified as other but later in my service before retiring, they said I was to classify myself as white. It never made a difference to me. I was Portuguese and that was all I cared. Now I have two children, my wife is from North America (USA) and she is wonderful. She loves the fact that I am Portuguese and my children love that fact also. My oldest daughter would say she is of Latin blood and I will respect her feelings because she says she is Portuguese first which makes me feel proud. So, to
close this message, I would say to you. Be proud to call your self who you are, people from Panama call themselves Panamanian, so why not call yourself Portuguese. Thank you for allow me to speak how I feel. Dave
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I am of Portuguese decent and I myself classify me as not ''white'' because of many readings. Lusitano is what us Portuguese should be called, I mean if we are white then how come we are connected to Spain and probably more South than the Country itself. If Spain has the word Hispanic or Latino then we should be respected in the same manner and be called Lusitanos or Lusiads. Most of my family has dark skin, but skin is not everything. When I was little I got very confused why I had such dark skin compared to all the people in my school in Canada. Well, most of the kids were English or Canadian. Many times I would be asked if I was Spanish and I would say no I'm Lusiad Portuguese or Azorean (I was born in Azores, São Miguel.) In the US we are classified as non-white but I would rather be called Lusitano or simply Portuguese. Thank you. - Couto
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I came across this forum by accident, and I have to say that I was a bit surprised by a couple of things.
I was first surprised to see that there are some Portuguese individuals who consider themselves Hispanics as absurd as that is. I've never known any Portuguese person who considers himself Hispanic. I have so many Hispanic friends, my girlfriend and future wife is Hispanic, and so many other people in my life. And even then donxt consider myself or any other Portuguese person Hispanic.
After reading all the messages I still donxt get the point of so many of you, I still donxt see a valid point of why Portuguese should be considered Hispanics. Because we live in the Iberian Peninsula? Well then we are Iberians. Because the Romans called it the Hispania peninsula? Who cares what they called it. Are the Romans the authority in people's definitions? Should we go find out what the Chinese called the Iberian Peninsula 1000 years ago? Besides, the American government doesn't use the term Hispanic for the people who are from the region that the Romans called Hispania. The American government couldnxt care about the Romans. South Americans didnxt come from the Iberian Peninsula; they just use the same languages.
I think Portuguese people just want to be Portuguese; we just donxt want to be called something we are not. If you call a Japanese person Chinese, that person will be offended, not because he thinks Japanese are better, but because he is proud of who he is, and wants to be viewed that way.
The person that wrote before me wrote about how Portuguese and Spanish cultures are so alike. The Portuguese and the Spaniards maybe. But south Americans are so different, in everything, from food, to music, to history, character, way of life, even appearance. Even Spaniards have so little in common with Hispanics. Aside from language. Yes Hispanics, you know? The term for people who speak Spanish in the NEW WORLD? Donxt call yourselves Hispanics just because your homeland is close to Spain or just because you can understand some of what is said on the Spanish channel. That doesn't make you Hispanic.
We are Lusitanos that is the right term.
Stop trying to be something you are not. Be proud of being Portuguese. The only people who seem to think that Portuguese are Hispanics are a few Portuguese people. Nobody else in the world does. Redvip2000@aol.com
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Let me start off by saying that I want nothing to do with Spain. This may sound harsh, but I am SO PROUD to be Portuguese and all that it stands for. Spain has been a thorn on Portugal's side since the days of Leon and Castile. My family is from the Azores. This probably means of mixed ethnicities of Iberian/Celtic/Moorish/African/Flemish, etc. I certainly do not consider myself Spanish or Hispanic. To me Hispanic means a mixed race of Indian/African/Spanish. Portugal was always and always will be different than Spain. Not better or worse, just different. Both my parents have the traditional European look...the light skin, the blue eyes. I on the other hand, have light skin, but brown eyes and hair. When I have a tan I can certainly pass for middle eastern. As a child I had curly blonde hair. All this suggests that I am not Nordic but neither am I African or Hispanic (of mixed Indian/African/Spanish races) . Like the Spaniards from Spain, the Italians, and the Greeks, I am a wonderful mix of peoples from southern Europe, the crossroads of the old world. To me Hispanic means "of Spain". Portugal is not "of Spain". Even in ancient times, present-day Portugal was called Lusitania. Sorry, I'm all over the place here. But hey I'm not writing my dissertation. J. DeMello (name's origin could be Flemish)?
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Regarding the issue of whether it is correct for Portuguese to be lumped into the Hispanic category, I have this to say. First, I think that both Hispanic and Portuguese people ought to possess the strength and pride of character to determine their own racial classification systems. It is a mark of weakness to succumb to the racial classification systems of an America that is basically Anglo-Saxon and Northern European in origin.
But I am always taken aback whenever I hear Portuguese become offended if they are regarded as Hispanic folk. The usual retort by those offended is that Portuguese are not Spanish, and that therefore in the interests of accuracy the two peoples should not be confused. However, if this retort were advanced on the Iberian peninsula, the point would either be regarded as moot or it would be met with dumb stares. In Iberia, both the Spanish and the Portuguese already know quite well how different they are, also how similar. But in America, this term Hispanic causes quite a commotion amongst the Portuguese. Why? Simply because everyone knows that the term is basically racist in origin and in use. It is a term invented by white Anglo and Nordic America to describe those people who are not really....black....but who are also not quite...shall we say....white, but who somehow are definitely inferior to the "normal and average" person of Teutonic background. And this is precisely the main reason why so many Portuguese lose their cool if white America thinks they are Hispanic. The Portuguese immigrant wants to be part of white America also. The Portuguese immigrant is very happy to have "made it" here in America. He or she want to be regarded as equals to "normal Americans". They don't want to be classed into an inferior category composed of spics, wetbacks, illegals, and welfare cases. As a result, I find it sad that Portuguese disdain the appellation Hispanic simply out of a sense of shame. In doing so, the Portuguese merely trot behind white America, all the while promising that, yes, they will quickly adopt the habits and customs of the WASP culture in America. And it was, perhaps still is, precisely this shame and fear of being considered somewhat less-than-white by Anglo-Nordic America that caused, perhaps still causes, first, second, third, and later generations of Portuguese-Americans to shun Portuguese immigrants arriving from the continent or from the Azores, or to treat them with the same disdain and contempt that the "normal Americans" did or do.
What a sorry mentality we Portuguese possess, if we desire only to ape the characteristics of the ruling culture in America. I have friends in Sweden and Denmark and visit there regularly. Both peoples, Danes and Swedes, are aware of their unique characteristics vis-à-vis one another.
However, they both share a pride in being Scandinavian. They are aware of similarities in race, appearance, language, culture, history, religion and they use these similarities to forge bonds of friendship and convenience with each other. They have no problem in being labeled Scandinavian by anyone because that term comprises SOME part of their identity. Contrast this state of affairs to the pitiful relation between Spanish and Portuguese, each group contemptuous of the other, each group trying to avoid any semblance of a larger unity in spite of the substantial similarities in language, race, religion, and history.
I was born in Portugal 50 years ago. Am I Portuguese? Yes! Am I also Hispanic? Yes! Regards, Antonio Brito
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Are we Hispanics or Portuguese?
If you are Portuguese or you are a Portuguese descent; you are Portuguese and not Hispanic . How tuff is that? Now only people who can call themselves Latinos are people who are descent or born in Latin America ( Central America, South America, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico ) No matter if your from Brazil and speaks Portuguese or French ( in case of the French Guyana, north of Brazil ) you are a LATINO. Why is that? Because these are the languages ( Portuguese and Spanish ) that GAVE the name to LATIN America, because both of them are derived from Latin. Now if it was only the Spaniards that conquered South America, I think by today it would be called Spanish America or La America Española . Vice Versa with Portuguese; A America Portuguesa or The Luso America.- Emanuel Carvalho
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Well it would seem to me that the early 1900's were not as confused by this predicament as everybody seems to be now. On birth certificates dated at that time under color or race, the Portuguese were listed as "white"- period. The confusion comes in when Spain and Portugal, (a white race) invaded Mexico and intermarried with the Aztec Indians, (a dark race) called Mexica, which left a new race of people. The offspring were no longer Aztec nor were they Portuguese or Spanish. They were a mixture of two or three different races, and so they became a race unto themselves. The Mexicans have Portuguese, Spanish, and Aztec blood in them, but the Portuguese, Spanish, or Aztec, do not have Mexican blood in them. The Portuguese are Portuguese because of the nations that bred them, but the nations that bred them are not Portuguese. Is this clear? Frank Silva
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Ola, my name is Lenio, I am a Portuguese immigrant who was born in Terceira, Angra do Heroismo in Portugal. I am just writing to say that it's a relief to find a site where other Portuguese people like myself are fighting to make the rest of the world understand that we are not Spanish and all those other ethnicities/races so many ignorant people consider us to be. I am a very proud Portuguese. I even consider myself to be a Portuguese nationalist. I came to America at the age of three and a half and I thank God that I have grown to be a man who did not forget about his people and country due to all the ignorance and falseness around me from people that I've met and things that I've seen and heard. I must be honest about something, it pisses me off when I see and hear things about the Portuguese that label us something other than what we are. All the stereotypes and things like that. Due to all of this I have become very nationalistic because I feel that's the way we need to be. I hope I am making sense and if not then I am sorry but right now I am speaking from the heart on how I feel inside and so I'm just typing as the thoughts come to mind. I know How I feel about this inside and I try to explain as best I can to other Portuguese. We cannot allow ourselves to give up in order to satisfy the ignorance of those who want us to go with what they label us. It really makes me depressed when I see one of our own say they are Hispanic. Things like this just really get me angry. We are Portuguese.
This is an example of a kind of pet peeve I have regarding these types of issues:
Recently some of my family members have gone on a trip to Terceira to visit family there. Before they left we were all sitting in my Uncles house in his living room talking while we waited for the bus that was supposed to arrive to take them to the air port. There was a Spanish lady there who I had never met. I guess she was a friend of one of my family members and she just came along. Anyway, I was sitting on the couch watching everyone converse and my aunt started speaking to her in Spanish (even though she understood Portuguese) and so this irritated me a bit as I was watching my Portuguese family members laugh and speak Spanish to each other to see who could do it better and I finally just got up and left to go sit outside. Later two of my little cousins, Anna and Brianna came out and asked what was the matter and I explained to them that we are Portuguese and we have enough struggle already with being depicted as Spanish and us doing that would not help us in getting away from that depiction. I explained to them that we need to be proud of being Portuguese. I try to set examples like that to not just my little cousins but anyone who I know is Portuguese.
The point of this story is just to give an example of how I feel inside. I am not afraid to admit that I am all for the Portuguese. People may consider that being closed minded or whatever but that doesn't matter because I have my reasons. The way I see it is we need to proud like that we need to put our foot down and say "HEY! ... we are Portuguese and Proud! We ARE different!"
One of the reasons why the events in that story irritated me is because I did not see that Spanish lady put forth an effort to speak Portuguese after she was asked to try so why they heck do I have to see my OWN people put that effort in to speaking their language?... I mean I see that all the time... I see so many Portuguese people who know Spanish, who understand it and So many Spanish who DON'T know Portuguese or try to understand it. I personally believe that the Spanish don't give a rats A$$ about our language so why do we care of theirs?...
I get really mad and very nationalistic because we as Portuguese are like... UNDER DOGS I guess that's best way to explain it. I'm tired of all these stereotypes about my people and I for one will fight for Portugal and all my Portuguese brothers and sisters and I do not wish to do this alone but rather with their help:) Let's STAND TOGETHER!... Sincerely, Lenio M.Q.B.
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-Hello, my name is Michael Maciel, I was born in Los Angeles, California, USA in 1987 where I have lived all my life. I was born to Mexican-immigrants and I'm confident I'm of Spaniard descent, since my mother is very light in complexion and my dad could be called white with his complexion. For years I have wondered about the origin of my last name Maciel Finally, know I know, I'm 17 now and I have learned that my last name is actually of PORTUGUESE ORIGIN!
So, now I know I have both Spanish and Portuguese blood in me, so when it comes to racial classifying, I just mark white, because I am white, I'm of European descent, My skin is extremely white, I have natural blondish/light brown hair and light brown eyes, I attempt to get a tan but instead I end up looking like a lobster.
I very much think that Portuguese people and all people in Europe are white and even if you are born in Mexico, Central America, or South America, there are people that are also of European descent.
Hispanic is a damn word the government uses to classify people that speak Spanish, I speak fluent Spanish and now that I have learned of my Portuguese origin, I will begin to teach myself and study the Portuguese language this segunda-feira.Viva la Peninsula Iberia!-
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The Foundation has received a letter from Mr. Martellari, an Italian-American gentleman who has an opinion about the Hispanic classification. He frequents the virtual Italia web site, which has also a forum to discuss the same subject.
Read the whole letter-
-I have to say, this is one of the most interesting and controversial dialogues I've had the pleasure to read on this site. It's a treat to read other's opinions on this politically sensitive matter... Truly, J-oseph Martellari
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Hello, Wow I was very captivated by the conversations, however I am not Portuguese, my sister is. I am Italian and Spanish. It is so hard to mark the correct thing on these dumb census forms today. I say that because the origins of Hispanic and Latin were all turned around. People of Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and French descent are Latin because of the languages. Now, after research and reading so many different articles, I consider people of South America Mestizos because they are descendents of Latin and native blood lines, as well as African descent. I can pass for the Latin that is known here and to the rest of the world. However when I tell people I'm Latin, I'm not saying that I'm from Latin American but because of my Latin heritage of Italian and Spanish descent. Latin means the language of ancient Rome and a member of a people speaking a romance language. Hispania was a termed used for the people of the Iberia Peninsula which consists of the Spaniards and Portuguese. I assume it is how you see yourself and how you want others to see you. The government is the one who starting putting people in categories without knowing the true meaning of the word and group but that is due to ignorance. I view Portuguese, Spaniards, and Italians to be Latin and they are one the "grand parents" to the "Latinos" of South America. Which now I referred them as being mestizos because they are descendents of Latins, Native Americans, and Africans. If you want to go even deeper than that, they also have Arabic and Jewish descent as well.....so basically WE OUR ALL MIXED MUTTS!!! So in conclusion I consider my sister and me to be Latin, and I mark other on the census form and fill it in if there is a line provided. !gracias!. .........Pamela Pinto-Da'Moni
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--(We kindly request our visitors to translate the following from Spanish to English)
Sobre lo dicho, Hispanics es para los Gringos una definicion arbitraria, y ellos entre su ignorancia y su poder hacen o que les da la gana; la salida: Aprovechar la calificacon para obtnere beneficios como minorias porque siempre lo seran; los que se quejan los acomplejados que olvidan que cuando llegaron sus acncestros fueron considerados no white y ahora son mas papsitas que el papa, xla vaca se olvidó quando fue terneraª suele suceder . Um grande abraço para os Lusos pensantes desde PERÚ... Luis Lozano--
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-I have one more input about the Hispanic or Portuguese debate. People keep bringing up the government census. The Census say's all middle Eastern people are white. all Arabs, Iranians etc.. When some of those people are dark skinned. But then a blond haired blue eyed person from Latin America is not "White". The Census is a joke. The next time I get stopped by a police officer and the put Hisp on my ticket I will bring out my Census form and show him that I am not. the next time my daughter comes home and tells me that an Anglo kid called her and her Mexican American friend "Beaners" I will make sure next time she has here census form with here to show the truth. You can't put everybody in the USA in a category. When my people came to this country from Portugal in the early 1900's they where not white, Now they are white. .That's why I don't fill out the "Race Section". They don't have a box for me. One last thing Hispanic is not a race. It's a ethnic group. You can be white, brown, black and be Hispanic. Joe Silva
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Joe, you are correct in stating that we are Latin. In fact, Latin blood permeates Europe, the Americas, parts of Africa, etc. Hundreds of millions of people the world over could define themselves as Latin, if the requirement was Latin blood running through their veins. Yep, we could all be Latin, but please remember that this was never the question. I have realized that the only problem with this forum is that the real question is "how do some Portuguese people define themselves?" I understand that in America your stereotypical xwhite guyx is tall, lanky and pale, while your Hispanics are seen as shorter and brown. While we all know that this isnxt true, this depiction on T.V., in movies, etc. seems to have influenced the way some Portuguese have come to identify themselves. Clearly, you do not see yourself as a xwhite-guyx, while I most certainly do. Most of us arenxt the tall, Nordic-typex.but in truth, neither are most Southern-Europeans! It doesnxt matter, really. There is no question, as far as the American government is concerned, as to what we are. For the census and other government purposes, if your ancestors are European you are "white". If you, or your ancestors, are from Central America, the Caribbean, or South America (except for Brazil), you are Hispanic. This is one way to tally how many potential Spanish-speaking Americans are in the country, which in turn affects gov't spending, the educational system, laws on bilingualism in the U.S. etc Every Portuguese person who checks off Hispanic, is doing the rest of us a disservice!! The government is attempting to figure out things like, how many of itsx employees must speak Spanish, whether it is a valid argument that both Spanish and English be taught in grade-school, what languages must a DMV test be printed in, and other matters of this sort The last time I checked, Portugal was in Europe, neither we nor our ancestors spoke Spanish, and there are no laws in Congress being debated over Portuguese or Portuguese-Americans. I must say, again, that it is a little disheartening to hear some Portuguese say they reply or check "Hispanic" because they do not know any better, or have no clue what else to say I reiterate, take pride and learn about our culture, our history, and help shape our future. It is truly great to be a Portagee!! (And Joe, one of my great-grandmas was a Silva. I know itxs a pretty common name, but where is your family from?)-Ryan Reposa
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-People, We all have Latin blood running through our veins that's what binds us. You all need to think of it that way. We are all part of the Latin culture if your Hispanic or Portuguese. I don't think of myself as a white guy with a tan. I am Latin. Joe Silva-
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I'm sorry, but this seems like a ridiculous discussion! Are people in Northern Italy, French? Ok, their dialect is similar and they "look" the same, but that is absurd! Nope, they're Italiano. Many Portuguese (myself included) look like Spaniards or Italianos. In California, which is where I'm writing from, some people think that I'm a fair skinned Mexican, or Jewish. None of this matters, though. Fact is fact, and the fact is that we, as Portuguese, are European, not minorities and definitely not Hispanic. If somebody happens to think that you're Hispanic and discriminates against you, that DOESN'T make you Hispanic, you're just the victim of some bodies ignorance. In fact I think that it is noble that some people on this site empathize with Hispanics, and many note the cultural similarities. While this is true, the Portuguese also share many cultural similarities with the French, but I would never call myself a Frenchman!
To those Portuguese throwing yourself into the hodge-podge cultural stew of Hispanic.........STOP IT!!! Go read a book on our great, long, noble culture and stop using this label as a way of receiving special attention, or a way to lick your wounds because somebody saw that you were tan and called you Latino! Get over it, your a Portagee and be proud!! Ryan Reposa
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Hello! As a fourth generation Portuguese American of Madeiran origins, the article on Hispanics and ethnicity was of great interest. Although relatively young (under 30), I have encountered several questioners who, because of my dark tan and "swarthy" appearance, have assumed me to be of Latino or Mexican origin. I always politely explain that I am Portuguese, ethnic Caucasian from Europe, and certainly not Hispanic. The term "Hispanic" refers to anything associated with old colonial Spain. While Portugal did come under Spanish control in 1581 under Phillip II, I still consider myself a Caucasian with a tan, not a "Hispanic" in any sense of the word. Not that there is anything wrong with Latinos, Hispanics, Puerto Ricans, etc. There is, however, a distinction between our lineage as Lusophones of Mediterranean descent and that of a Central or South American. Thanks. Just wanted to share my opinion. Dave Teixeira
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I know this will add more fuel to the discussion but according to Office of Personnel Management form OPM 1468(RACE AND NATIONAL ORIGIN IDENTIFICATION form utilized by all federal agencies), an Hispanic is: A person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish cultures or origins. Does not include persons of Portuguese culture or origin. Therefore Portuguese, Brazilian, Azorean and others of Portuguese ancestry do not qualify in the classification of Hispanic as defined by the Federal Government. You can check it out for yourself at the following links from the U.S. Department of Justice. http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/jobs/forms/SF-181.doc
OPM FORM 1468 IS ALSO STANDARD FORM 181 Race and National Origin Identification for use with current Federal Employees, it can be found at this link at the Office of Personnel Management Site. http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/sf181.pdf
Abraços, Marcelo -
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My grand-parents came from the Azores and I have considered myself Hispanic all my adult life due to cultural similarities. My father was the only Hartford, Conn Police officer in the 1960s who could speak Spanish and communicate with the Spanish speaking community. I have been involved in higher education as a career and each institution has considered me to be Hispanic. While Latino may be preferred, I check off Hispanic on the Census form. I never realized how much people placed in a name until after high school. I didn't realize that I was being treated different than others due to my last name. Today I see my daughter is treated differently due to her last name. In fact I was considered by some a "spic". When I go to visit Florida and people learn my name, they immediately start speaking Spanish to me. For political and cultural reasons I consider myself Hispanic. Let's face it--if you are being discriminated against, we will find much more acceptance by the total Hispanic community than by the non-Hispanic community. Portuguese are Hispanic according to Webster's 2000 Dictionary definition. While we are different in many ways from Spain, Latin America, etc, there are cultural ties that bind us together. Denis Medeiros
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Including the dictionary definitions above as if this proves something about the "truth" is nonsensical. Definitions out of a dictionary are useless in their ability define the social categories people use in everyday real life.
I was watching the Latin Grammy's last night, for example, and kept hearing how it was a celebration of Hispanic and Latino Culture. Then I saw the Azorean-North American Nelly Furtado perform. The Latin Grammy's, according to their website, celebrate "the creative spirit, incredible diversity and artistic achievement of Latin music" as represented through music of "Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking communities from around the world"
(See http://www.grammy.com/awards/latin_grammy/index.html and http://www.grammy.com/latin_academy/).
What this example illustrates is that the argument over the "Portuguese as Hispanic?" question misses the broader point. Not how the Portuguese may or may not think of ourselves, but how the broader public thinks of us. The problem infrequently addressed is that whether we choose to recognize ourselves as Hispanic or not, we still get treated by the broader population as a member of that group, yet, under the law, we do not have any of the legal protections that they have, nor are we able to obtain the legal privileges that they do. I can win a Latin Grammy and be told on national television that my culture exemplifies "Hispanic and Latin American culture" but I cant get a small business loan to start a company or a scholarship so I can go to a good college.
Why are we haggling over whether or not we are Hispanic or Latino or whatever. The fact remains that most Portuguese in America are treated as such by the broader public. Arguing that we "shouldn't" be in the category is not going to make them treat us any better, or assist us in addressing the broader issues of concern among our communities. If we are going to be treated as Hispanics, then we should also receive the same protections and benefits that they do. Joe Leite Fall River, MA
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I was researching the terms 'Hispanic' and 'Latino' because I was confused and wanted to gain a better understanding. That's how I discovered your most interesting forum. Unfortunately, I have only become even more confused! This is probably as it should be since these terms are fairly young in the overall scheme of things and therefore not well defined yet-if they ever will or should be. I believe we citizens of the USA coined these terms mostly to determine who among us should be considered 'minorities' for equal employment and civil rights type benefits!
My dad was born in Palermo, Sicily and my mom's parents or grandparents were from other parts of Italy. I visited various areas of Italy, including Palermo, in the early 90s and discovered my dad's ancestors really came from Reggio, Calabria-the toe of the 'boot'. Any student of European history knows that Sicily was invaded by numerous peoples from vastly different cultures and all left their mark on the island and its people. Even before I learned this fact, I never could understand man's need to be so territorial. I grew up in a northern New Jersey suburb and friends of mine on my 'block' were enemies of those living on a nearby block! Not because they were different in some way! It was ONLY because they were from a different area of the SAME TOWN!
I think it's absurd in the extreme to dislike someone merely because of their ancestry or where they live or used to live or for any reason beyond their control. We need to learn from history so THAT WE DON'T REPEAT IT. Much of what I've read on this most interesting site talks about 'we are NOT the same as THEM and we're offended when others think we are'! I have visited numerous European countries and all have something to be proud of, however, remember that pride, while sometimes appropriate and understandable, is usually considered a character DEFECT and one of the SEVEN DEADLY! Thank you for the opportunity to express my thoughts! Lou Campolo
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Hi. I am Brazilian-American. Born to a part Native North American mother and Brazilian father.
I grew up thinking that I was Indian, due to my family's influence. Until, that is, that I learned that in the U.S., one must have legal documents that designate one as native American.
My brother and I carry 'enough' indigenous blood to qualify for this legal definition. But, what REALLY allows one to confidently to say that one is native (U.S.) American is to have a tribal culture. Several generations back, my family broke away from the tribal logbook.
So, according to Anglo-American litigious parlance, I am not 'legally' an Indian, although I could, with some effort, reclaim this "legal" title to the word. My father is Brazilian. I grew up in brazil. I am a citizen of both the US and Brazil. I live here in a North American anglicized culture in which one must find a label to define myself, if one is not white. I am mestizo, and have never identified myself as 'white' although an anthropologist may disagree. As a teenager, I began to notice the term 'Hispanic' as one of those categories one can check off on forms, and I looked up the word in the dictionary.
This was about 12 years ago. It said something to the effect of : reference to Hispania, Roman name of Iberian Peninsula; person of Spanish and/or Portuguese ancestry YES. THAT IS IT. So, for another chunk of time I reveled in my re-claimed identity which acknowledges the great possible mix of indigenous American, black, white, and ? heritage with ancestry in at least AMERICA and HISPANIA (A.K.A. the Iberian Peninsula). I do acknowledge the limitations of the term HISPANIC (i.e.. Mexicans of primarily indigenous descent prefer not to be principally defined by the colonizing power (as I also preferably do not)). I acknowledge that increasingly, the term HISPANIC is associated with SPANISH/America; and this is reflected in current dictionaries, which tend to now leave out the Portuguese aspects of the history of the term HISPANIA. I acknowledge that some prefer the term LATINO, as more inclusive.
I presume that this term refers to the Latin American peoples of Central America (and Mexico) and South America. But LATINO is a problematic term, as Italians and French and Romanians should also be able to use the term LATINO as it implies Latin heritage (although they generally do not, as there is a tacit understanding that LATINO is a truncated form of LATINO AMERICANO).
THUS, To date, I find the term HISPANIC most useful to define the people of "LATIN AMERICA". With few exceptions, these countries were colonized by the 2 countries of the Iberian Peninsula (previously known as HISPANIA), Portugal and Spain. I acknowledge that Brazilians have historically espoused a "we're different" attitude. I acknowledge that HISPANIC is a categorical term developed in the U.S. (thus many non-U.S. associated Latin Americans have never even heard of the work Hispanic!!!) I suggest that there are many, many, categories of "HISPANICS" (Cubans, Chicanos, Puerto Ricans...).
I am comfortable with considering LUSOPHONES to be one of the many flavors/categories of the Hispanic culture. Latin America has great economic potential for growth in the future.
This greatness may be realized through an economic union not unlike that of the European Union.
The economic market unity of Latin America would be expedited if it's member countries' citizens could celebrate their own cultural differences and more importantly, recognize a key unifying historical thread that runs throughout the geographic region-it's historical association with the Iberian Peninsula.
This is why, as a Brazilian-American, I choose to be comfortable with being a Lusophone HISPANIC.
Maria Pontes Ferreira, MS, RD Smith College, Picker Engineering Program, 51 College Lane Northampton, MA 01063.
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I was intrigued by the comments posted regarding the question are we Hispanic or Portuguese? I am a Brazilian National who resides in the U.S., I have always been confused by the Hispanic term and have at times categorized myself as Hispanic due to misunderstanding; however after doing some research on the census website I came up with the following web sites:-- http://www.census.gov/acs/www/UseData/CodeList/SSAll/2000/Hispanic.htm
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/UseData/CodeList/SSAll/2000/Ancestry.htm
--I would like to share the following passage, which was obtained at this site: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/ahs/appa.html
The classification "Hispanic" refers to the origin of the householder occupying the housing unit. Hispanic origin was determined on the basis of a question that asked for self-identification of persons living in the unit who were Hispanic or Spanish American. There is no intent to include people of Brazilian or Portuguese ancestry. Hispanic persons may be of any race. Most identify themselves as white or black, as shown in table 2-1. Data on Hispanic households shown in AHS reports are collected in the 50 States and the District of Columbia, and therefore do not include households living in Puerto Rico.
I hope it helps! Abraços, Marcelo Liborio dos Santos
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As many have already referred, Hispania is another name for the Iberian Peninsula. In fact, it's an older name, and in a way more accurate (Hispania comes from, if I'm not mistaken, Phoenician, and describes the peninsula itself). Iberia comes from the Greek and simply refers to a people that lived in the south of the peninsula). Spaniard is someone from the peninsula. Spain takes its name from the peninsula. A Hispanic is, in its true significance, an Iberian. *Unfortunately, it seems that Hispanic, in the US, stands for someone who not only comes from South America, but that has a certain skin color. In current times, Latin countries are those that speak languages derived from Latin. That's primarily Italy, Portugal, Romania, Spain and France. Naturally, former colonies of Portugal and Spain, using Portuguese or Spanish as their languages. Brazil and Peru, for instance, are Latin countries. So is Angola and Mozambique. The "race" associated with "Hispanics," in the significance it's given in the US, refers to a "race" that is essentially Native American (like, say, the descendents of the Aztecs); mixed with white and in some cases black populations. In Portugal and Spain one can say that there are two essential blood lines: the White bloodline and the not-so-white bloodline of the Moors. But the Arabic bloodline is now greatly assimilated, as is the Jewish bloodline. The Portuguese and Spanish languages are greatly similar. In fact, there's a language in Spain, Gallegos, which is considered to be a Portuguese dialect. Portuguese is not a Castilian dialect. Portugal is not a Spanish province or region. Portuguese are Hispanic, Latin and White. Their not, however, Hispanic as is the racial and geographical definitions of this word in the US. Portuguese and Spanish share, to a great degree, the same origins. If we're picky, we can make the following division: In Galicia and Northern Portugal, the pre-roman Celtic heritage is stronger. After the fall of the Roman Empire. While the rest of the peninsula was invaded by the Visigoths, what is, roughly, todays Galicia and Northern Portugal was invaded by the Suevi. Later, the Suevi's kingdom was dominated and ruled by the Iberian Visigoths, but there wasn't a mix between the two races and cultures. Bottom line is: Portuguese are Latin because their language and culture derive from the Roman language and culture. If you're born in continental Portugal, you're Hispanic because you were born in the Hispanic Peninsula. You're Iberian because you were born in the Iberian Peninsula. You can say you're a Lusitanian. If you're white, you're white. If you're not white, you're not white. Skin colors don't care about nationality.-- lusiad@hotmail.com-
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In order to clarify the above writer, the Hispanic name is actually given to a person that identifies herself/himself as such and is not base on color of skin or other physical aspects. See email above.
The Editor for the PARHF, Inc.
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I am a descendant of first generation Portuguese heritage. Some time around the mid '90's I received (as a supervisor) notification that Portuguese is now considered "Hispanic". I have tried since that time to verify this as needed when filling out a job application etc. Is there such a law? I would appreciate any help you can give. L Sharp
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José Mauricio Gonzales Praxedes of Brazil - Portuguese speaking people are NOT Hispanic. I am from Brazil and I do NOT consider myself Hispanic, but I believe in a certain "relativeness" between Hispanics and Lusofonos, because we're certainly still Latin American, but I believe that, because of Ignorance, USA doesn't recognize Portuguese speaking people as "a unique form of Latinidade" as I see Brazilian people, we're still Latinos, but in a Very Unique way .I have great respect and admiration for all the Hispanic culture and language, I consider Portuguese related and Hispanic related culture as cousin brother cultures and I am proud of having such wonderful cultures like Mexican or Chilean on the same big umbrella of the Latin American Culture, but We, Portuguese speaking people are not Hispanic. We're Lusófonos, From the Great Unified Portuguese Speaking Latin America called Brazil.
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I agree with the position put forth on this website regarding who is Hispanic and who is not. Portuguese people should definitely check "white" on census forms as should Europeans from Spain. Hispanic refers to the Spanish and Portuguese speaking, largely mixed race people of the Americas and the Caribbean. Even so, I notice the media lumps all people who speak Portuguese or Spanish into one group: Hispanics or Latinos, which is just ridiculous. I have a friend who is of Portuguese ancestry, with a Portuguese surname (Mendonça), but she is actually of mixed race (East Indian and African). She could consider herself a Latino, but the point is she did not come from Europe.
Elle Hampton.
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I am second generation Portuguese-American with both sides of my family having roots in the Azores. My children's father was born in Mexico. His parents are Basque. We have had this discussion about being Iberian forever, but here we are considered Mexican and I no longer bother to debate it with the well meaning officials who look at our names and send us forms in Spanish or point me into the non English speaking lines. Oh, and try talking about the exploration of the New World with teachers who do not know the difference between Spanish and Portuguese, where Catholics are a minority and sometimes even referred to as "the cult of Mary". -I check Latino when possible even crossing out Hispanic as we are not historically Spanish. Theresa Echeverria -
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The similarities of the Spanish language and culture and our own cannot be denied, after all, we have a very similar past; culturally, as well as ethnically. But, what the US Census presumes is "Hispanic" does not define the European whites of Spain & Portugal. Like the Italians, Irish, Greeks and others, we have had to endure the American "Nordic" perceptions of what a "white" person should look like. We may have many dark-skinned people in our homogeneous population, but we are still European, and we are still White. The question of whether we are Hispanics is just ridiculous -- it has no merit. Portuguese people should check in "White" on the question of race, not "other" or "Latino/Hispanic". The reason is simply because the US government is attempting to count the Spanish speaking minorities -- not us. This is offensive to many Latin Americans, and rightly so, because many of them are from pure white racial lines -- especially people of Uruguay, Argentina; and to a lesser extent, Brazil. Indeed, many are from northern European roots and have fair complexion. But that's not for the Portuguese to argue. Yes we're Latin, from Hispania (Iberian Peninsula) -- but, we're not Latinos or Hispanics (Latin America). The "Latin vs. Latino" argument is simply too confusing (and boring to most) to attempt to explain, so please just check "White" and save yourself the aggravation. Thanks, Mike Costa -
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Hello, I just finished reading the "Hispanic or Portuguese?"debate, which I found extremely interesting. However, I have a question of my own.
What led me to your website was a google search containing the words "Luso-American" and "definition". I am the product of a Swedish mother and an Azorean Portuguese father. I am clearly not "Luso-American" because I am of mixed blood. I do not, however, consider myself "white" or simply "American".
In the past, persons of mixed blood have been called "mestiço"---but that term usually refers to persons of mixed European (particularly Spanish) and Amerindian blood. The term "creole/crioulo"---"A person of European heritage born in America" comes to mind, although, if I am not mistaken, the term "creole" also has its roots in Spanish colonization of the Americas.
One Portuguese dictionary provides the following definitions of "mestiço" and "crioulo":
crioulo adjectivo aborígene; autóctone; diz-se do dialecto português falado na América e em alguns pontos da África, nomeadamente em Cabo Verde; substantivo masculino indivíduo descendente de europeu nascido na América; dialecto dos crioulos; negro nascido no Brasil; (De cria+-olo, ou do cast. criollo, «id.») mestiço adjectivo e substantivo masculino que ou aquele que é proveniente de pais de raças, variedades ou subespécies diferentes; o m. q. Misto híbrido; mulato; (Do lat. tard. mixticîu-, de mixtu-, «misturado»)
According to these definitions I *could* be considered either a "mestiço"---"misto"---a "mixture" or a "crioulo"---"indivíduo descendente de europeu nascido na América". I might even be considered both.
Please know that I am not writing this email merely for the sake of posing this question. I am doing a research paper and I urgently need to know: what am I? Is there a name for someone like me, someone who is "half" Portuguese?
Is this even taken into consideration or would I simply be deemed "American"? Any information or answers you may provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Valéria Souza-
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-As a Portuguese-American I have mixed feelings about being termed "Hispanic." To me, I think of a person of Spanish and Native or of Spanish and Black blood that came from South America or the islands of the Caribbean such as Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic.
However, I do consider myself a Latina and feel that the U.S. needs to ratify the term Latino to include Portuguese people and to make the term Hispanic refers to people of South America that are of mixed ancestry. I do think this forum needs to stay open and we need more Portuguese to recognize the fact that by pure definition we are Latinos, not Hispanics, Puerto Ricans and others of mixed ancestry are Hispanic, but the Portuguese and the Spaniards own the term LATINO.
Most importantly, the Portuguese people must recognize that we are not plain old white people, we have a rich lineage that includes Arabic and in such islands as Madeira it includes blacks that were brought over as Slaves. Hence, why I am so adamant in not being called white or plainly European, I am Latin.
p.s. I check off Latino, if the term Hispanic is the only choice I check off Other and write in Latino. Maria Clara-
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I WAS BORN IN PORTUGAL...THEREFORE I AM PORTUGUESE FIRST AND EUROPEAN SECOND ... NOT HISPANIC!!! FINIS!!!
Maria Jenstad
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Are the Portuguese Hispanic? Its the same as asking: Are the Dutch Germanic? Are the Irish British? Are the Koreans Nipponic? Are the Israelis Arabs?. The question is more than ridiculous. It stems from one or more of the following reasons:
a) Ignorance of facts about the history, politics, language and geopolitical role of Portugal and Spain.
b) An American tendency (cultural and political) to simplify, segregate and divide: e.g. main stream vs. minorities , US vs. overseas, Caucasian vs. Hispanic vs. Asian vs. black (this approach would have a hard time in very amalgamated countries like Brazil, by the way).
c) historically recurrent symptoms of subtle conspiracy by influential Spaniards to absorb Portugal - something they have unsuccessfully tried to do since the XII century up to the 1990s (e.g. they subtly tried in the framework of the European Economic Commission to push an early version of the euro coin showing a picture of Europe without a Portuguese-Spanish border; in 1997 they provoked the Portuguese by starting the Bicycle Tour of Spain in the Portuguese town of Cascais; their national air carrier Iberia has the name of the whole Peninsula; some history school books in some regions of Spain during Francos regime showed Portugal just as any other province, etc.). So, it is very possible that the articles that have allegedly emerged in Madrid and in NY), may be another subtle try, in a recurrent stream of sneaky attempts in nine centuries, to integrate Portugal and Spain; this time by using American ethnic politics and the Hispanic-American immigrants as the ploy. The bottom line is as follows:
1. Hispanic means of Spanish origin, although in American ethnic politics and semantics, it usually refers to some (not necessarily all) Spanish Americans. This is evident by the fact that hispanic often appears in American surveys as a race-ethnic grouping different from white caucasian. Since the overwhelming majority of the Spaniards (from Spain) and also the majority of Argentines and Uruguayans and Chileans, and smaller percentages of other Spanish Americans, are white caucasian, it follows that the word hispanic has a color-specific racial bias.
2. Portugal is older than Spain as a country. Portugal and Spain have a long history of wars and were rivals in world dominance in the XV-XVIII centuries. This divide is reflected in the Iberian Peninsula as well as in South America. The Portuguese have nothing to do with Spanish America. The Brazilians (170 million of them in a country that is larger than continental US) were colonized by the Portuguese not the Spaniards. Brazilians, therefore, also have nothing to do with Spanish America.
3. Any attempt to convert the Portuguese into Hispanic by using American ethnic politics and public ignorance would not, in any case, be allowed formally. It would be diplomatically contested and scorned by Portugals Government. So it is absolutely ridiculous and absurd. Furthermore, a Portuguese-American Foundation should not be indulging in such nonsense.
Armand F. Pereira, Director at the Brazil Office of the International Labor Organization.-
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We appreciate and thank Mr. Pereira's comment. Please send us also your comments of what you think about this issue and if the Foundation should or not keep this Forum alive.
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Portugal is Portugal. Spain is Spain. I was born in Portugal, therefore, I'm Portuguese. I speak Portuguese. People in Brazil speak Portuguese. People in other countries of South America, central America and Mexico speak Spanish. Portugal and Spain, in case some congressman doesn't know, are situated in the European continent. Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, etc are in America. Now...by saying Hispanic is a race, and Spanish are Hispanic one is saying Europeans are Hispanic, since Spanish are of the European race. So....since Portuguese are Europeans, then Portuguese are of Hispanic origins. And so are the French, and the English, and the Germans, etc. So USA must be mostly Hispanic, since 80% of the population are European, and so for all of America. Also, since the Mexicans are mostly of American origin, and they were the first ones to be called Hispanic, Europeans must come from Mexico. I'm obviously joking, but that shows the extent of the American congressman....by making up a word like that and spreading such a foolishness in all government forms. Paulo Da Costa -
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-I do not like to consider myself European. I believe Portuguese people are more Hispanic or Latino than European. Sure the country may be in Europe but how could there even be a Latin Americans if it weren't for Spain and Portugal. So how can Spain be considered Hispanic and the Portuguese are not I mean Brazil takes up most of South America and what language do they speak??? That's right Portuguese so I would much rather consider myself Hispanic then any other ethnic classification. Thank you for your time
Anthony De Carvalho-
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Hello I am responding to your nice website of the Portuguese Pride. I do think it is important to be very proud of your culture and not get it confused with others, however some comments posted on this site could be viewed a racial and intolerant of humanity! You had one person that was quoted as saying to confuse a Portuguese person with a Spaniard is offensive and is like comparing a Greek to a Turk? My question to that person would be...where are you from anyway? I am of Spanish heritage and have Portugese in me as well as Italian, I have cousins that are half Spanish and Portugese and would be totally offended by your comments! I think it is important to look at our common bonds versus the differences. To say that a Portuguese person or a Spaniard is one more superior than the other, is a very uneducated comment! Being Spanish descent and very much HISPANIC is the truest form...for the Greeks and Romans named Spain HISPANIA ..thus the HISPANIC and latter ESPANA.I am very aware of my roots and surroundings. I am also aware that PORTUGAL and SPAIN wGalegoce a part of each other. As well as one of the Regional languages of SPAIN is Gallego(Galego) , which many people know PORTUGESE was drawn from. An example of Galego would be " Bos Dias , como estas, me chamo Xose e eu vivo en San Francisco.. agora mismo esta chovando aforra! Ata logo, adeus.. so do you see the similarity? And if one was to go to galicia as a portugese person, you would be able to understand that language at 90% and vice versa for the Spaniards. Regionalsim to me is very strange, for I have seen it in all forms! I have friends that are Peninsula Portugese from the Mainland, they would not consider my cousins from the AZORES any more PORTUGESE than the man in the moon! So it is with Spaniards and the CANARY ISLANDS and the Italians with SICILY. I think we need to be careful what we write to people so they will not get offended, see our common bonds versus differences and remember that we are all creatures of God!
Take care, Joe Vilchez
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Dictionary definitions are fine, but it is perhaps best to look at the law and the form you are filling out which sometimes has a definition of Hispanic. The organization in which I am currently employed defines Hispanic as "Someone who is descended from the cultures or peoples of the Iberian peninsula or from those countries or cultures which have been historically been in association with these." (Personally I think that includes most of the world.) Why should we deny ourselves jobs, minority scholarships or contracts just because Portugal split off at a certain point from Spain? With too strict a definition Brazilians are not included in Latino which means the largest country in South America does not qualify as part of Latin America - which I have seen argued. On the other hand, I have seen Italians considered Latino since they were the first.
While you are arguing whether or not you are Hispanic the bigots are discriminating against you. I did not get a job because it was decided "We have enough Spics" Bigots who cannot tell the difference between a Hindu and a Moslem surely cannot tell the differences between a person with a "z" or an "s" at the end of a name.
If a German moved to Mexico became a citizen then moved to the USA he would be classified as Hispanic and then benefit from the minority protections! I never thought of myself as Hispanic until I realized that I needed the protection of the anti-discrimination laws.
Interestingly, my father's family considered themselves Luso-Americans and my mother's Portuguese-Americans. To start another discussion what is the difference? I think it was more than semantic, the paternal side joined the Luso-American club, etc., the maternal the Portuguese-American versions of these clubs and organizations.
Ethnically, I have decided on human. Legally, Hispanic though I am always told you don't look it. A lawyer told me that the company would have to fight it out in court if they wanted to challenge me.
I classify my friends, colleagues and acquaintances as human, though I have always wanted to have a Martian friend. Perhaps someday! Best wishes to my fellow humans, D. Araujo
(Usually pronounced incorrectly as an Italian name or the Spanish way with the "H" which I then have to correct) Araujo is definitely a Spanish name, probably started by a French knight!?!
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I don't feel comfortable with the title "Hispanic" as I am not descended from anyone from Spain. I don't feel comfortable with the title " Lusitano" as it is a roman name and my grandparents did not come from Lusitania they came from PORTUGAL. As I am the second generation of fully Portuguese blooded family born in the USA I am very comfortable as a "Portuguese American." I am very American ,very Portuguese and very proud of my heritage . In Georgia before integration of the "Black" and "White"the majority of "white" people treated Portuguese Americans as second class citizens ,somewhere between white and black. After integration the "white" people wanted to increase their numbers and so suddenly we were no longer in between but were "white". I say all this ancient history to explain that I am also uncomfortable with employment forms etc. that state :
WHITE___ AFRO/AMERICAN___ HISPANIC_____ OTHER_____ as the only choices. I remember when I wasn't considered "white enough", I am not afro/american ,Hispanic and don't like being reduced to OTHER. If they would ask for ethnic descent and make the choices ASIAN____ AFRICAN_____EUROPEAN _____NATIVE AMERICAN_____ MIDDLE EASTERN____ and list all other major ethnic groups so as not to appear to Highlight the first 3 groups I would feel comfortable.
Otherwise HUMAN BEING____ and NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS____ would be my favorites.
Robert And Karen Martin
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In America the «Hispanic» and «latino» terms are referred to those of mixed White/Native-American descent (the mestizos), as most of the people of the Central and South American continent are. Spaniards, and Portuguese on this specific case, are not «Hispanics» nor «latinos», are White/Europeans.
Greetings. R. de Oliveira
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I do not claim to be Hispanic (although when I get pulled over by officers that is what is checked). I do not claim to be Portuguese. I will claim to be Latino or Açoreano. The United States likes to assimilate people into either black or white. I have found nothing but acceptance from our Spanish speaking brothers and sisters. The Portuguese speaking latinos always like to say "our culture is different than theirs". That is non-sense, there are more similarities than anything else. The Portuguese speaking immigrants have to be some of the most assimilating immigrants the United States has ever had. Our brothers have changed their names to fit in better and everything else. The lighter skinned ones, have definitely used that to their benefits, much like light skinned black people. Enough is enough, divide and conquer is wonderful tactic that is being used here between the Portuguese and the Spanish. For the most part people have no idea what I am when they look at me, and I'll keep them guessing. I know my people have problems accepting others at times. This will change with education. I will continue being LATINO until die. I will argue it until I die if need be. As my father from the island of Santa Maria, Açores says quite frequently "They can't stop this Latin Blood".. Hispanic. no. Latino. yes. Kevin Figueiredo
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I am 100% in full agreement with what Mr. Figueiredo has stated. There is a young Azorean writer Miguel Moniz who writes for the Portuguese Times in New Bedford, Massachusetts he is amazing. He dissects this topic inside and out , and has great insight. These beliefs come from my father's generation who believe Portugal actually cared about the islands, thus they considered themselves "European". Since coming to this country and experiencing the cold shoulder my father has learned to embrace our Latin brothers, for that I am very proud of him.. Wake up Azorean immigrants the "motherland" never cared for you or my ancestors, we were left to starve and were the first ones sent off to fight their wars. The 1st generation who actually received schooling understands this (not by any fault of my parents generation). Latino is a culture or ethnicity I believe and if you look closely you will see a common thread between all the Latino communities. We come from the Moors, Northern A Hispanic no Latin yes. Paul Vasconcelos
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Some people think that when we say that we're not Hispanic, we're putting the true Hispanics down. This is not the case. The Portuguese are one of the most civic minded nationalities in the world. One of the first to abolish slavery and capital punishment. Yes, we are from Latin origin, but so are the French and the Italians. I don't see anyone in the States call them Hispanics. But for an American to consider us to be of Spanish descent is like telling a Greek that he is of Turkish descent. It is an outrage and an offence to the Portuguese nation and people. I'm not right wing but a patriot. My family first started to emigrate to the US in the turn of the 20th century like many others. I too live abroad (Canada). The only difference between first generation Portuguese emigrants and third generation Americans from European origin is that their ancestors came by boat and we came by plane.
Viva os Açores, Viva Portugal, Ivone Rosa
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My ancestors came from the Azores during the 1850's. Living in a state with a high Portuguese population (RI), this shouldn't even be an issue, but it is. Most of the settlers here came from the Azores, of which most are noticeably lighter complexion than mainland Portugal.
You really can't tell if someone is Portuguese just by looks here. My mother is blond haired, blue eyed, and has a very light complexion. She will tell a person she's "German" when confronted with disbelief as to being Portuguese. I on the other hand take after my father, dark hair, white in the winter, but always a deep tan in the summer.
Some of my favorite comments after telling someone I'm Portuguese are "You don't look Spanish". "Oh, I know a guy at work who's Spanish maybe YOU know him". "You speak good English", (It's all I speak). "Do you live in Fall River?" (A Massachusetts city with a high Portuguese population). "How do you pronounce your last name?" (It's Rose). I could go on and on!
While for the most part I'm not discriminated against; there have been times when I've gotten dirty looks while out with my wife, who's French. You can read their minds ("What's she doing with that SPIC!"), and once I was looking for an apartment during the summer, and when the agent met me she asked if I would not rather like an apartment on the other side of town (the side with the minority population). It seems that people with lower intelligence are the ones to stereotype us (You know, the ones who go out of their way to avoid you and talk behind your back like your some kind of a freak). I think the problem has been too many people who are not fully Portuguese, but claiming to be so (Cape Verdeans, Brazilians, or other Black/Hispanic/White mixed cultures) have confused people as to what Portuguese really is. I've never considered myself Hispanic, nor do I know of any Portuguese person who does, but skin color goes a long way as to what people perceive you to be. I'm sure I'll always be a "spic" in peoples mind during the summer, while my mother will always be that "German lady". Add this to the confusion caused by our Government, some State agencies, and the overall different opinions by people, as to "what we are ", and you can see the problem is not likely to go away anytime in the near future. R.Rose Cumberland, RI
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(We kindly request our visitors to translate the following from Portuguese to English) Caros Senhores:
A propósito da questão "Hispanic or Portuguese," e depois de ler vários dos comentários disponíveis no vosso site, atrevo-me a enviar o seguinte comentário.
Ao dar um nome seja a que for desde logo se corre o risco de, após o seu uso se tornar generalizado, mais tarde ou mais cedo se perder, por completo esquecimento nas brumas do tempo, o contexto que preside à atribuição do nome.Quem saberá, hoje, explicar porque se chama TEJO ao Rio Tejo? Do mesmo modo há que reflectir sobre o que será ser "Hispanico"? Hispanico, Espanhol, porquê?
Os Antigos chamavam á península onde hoje se situa Portugal e a Espanha, mas também Gibraltar e Andorra (serão os Gibraltinos e os Andorranos Hispanicos?), IBÈRIA - os de tradição latina - porque a terra do Ebro, o primeiro grande rio a ficar sob o domínio Romano, ou SPANIA - os de tradição Fenícia ou Grega.
Ao conquistarem o restante território da Península (para além da zona do Ebro) os Romanos, conscientes que o topónimo Ibéria respeitava á área da actual Catalunha e Aragão, passaram a chamar ao conjunto da Gallécia, Lusitania, Bética e Tarraconense, HISPANIA. Desta circuntância resulta a actual sobreposição dos topónimos IBÉRIA e HISPANIA.
Com a derrocada do Império Romano a Península caí sob o domínio Visigótico, povo germánico por certo pouco conhecedor da toponimia do território conquistado, cujos reis aproveitaram o termo Hispania para definir o território sob sua jurisdição. Os topónimos são tão mais difíceis de "gerir" como a descrição que se segue.
Os Visigodos são desalojados da sua Hispania pelos Árabes, que, de imediato passam a chamar o seu novo território de AL Andaluz. É que os Árabes tinham anteriormente conquistado o Norte de África, o Magreb, em que se encontrava instalada outra tribo germanica, os Vândalos, que por sua vez para aí chegar haviam passado pela Península, razão porque as populações do outro lado de Estreito de Gibraltar diziam ser essa a terra de origem dos Vândalos. Temos, pois, três termos a considerar, a saber: IBÈRIA, HISPANIA e AL ANDALUZ.
Os reis cristãos que resistiram no Norte da Peninsula, nas Astúrias, sempre mantiveram a memória dos seus antepassados Visigodos como Reis (dominadores) da Hispania. Ao longo de todo o processo de Reconquista a aspiração de qualquer dos Reis da Península foi sempre e "reconstrução" do antigo Reino Visigótico como o único senhor da Hispania. Não conseguindo esse objectivo sempre se atribuiram o nome de REI, seguido do do território que dominavam, seja Astúrias, seja Navara, seja Galiza, Leão, Castela, Aragão, Catalunha, Valência. Um deles atribuia-se o título de Imperador, o Rei de Leão.
Uma vez que o título de Rei da Hispania só poderia ser detido por quem efectivamente dominásse todo o território da Península, tal só foi possível quando, em 1580, Filipe II, não de Espanha mas de Aragão e Castela, se tornou Rei de Portugal com o nome de Filipe I de Portugal.
Ao juntar as três Coroas, a de Aragão, a de Castela e a de Portugal, Filipe teve finalmente a possibilidade de se intitular o único soberano da Hispania, passando a Europa, por esse facto a conhecer o Rei dos três Reinos da Península como o Rei da Espanha. Adquirido um título é extremamente difícil a alguém, Rei ou não, renunciar a ele.
Com a revolta de 1640, Portugal coloca de novo no trono um Rei português, D. João IV, deixando, pois, Filipe IV de dominar o Reino português mas mantendo o título de Rei de Espanha. Á volta desse equívoco se constroi o Estado Espanhol, dominando todos os Reinos Penínsulares, menos o de Portugal e Andorra.
Espanhóis são os cidadãos do Estado Espanhol, que falam quatro línguas oficiais, Castelhano (tida como a língua do Estado, daí Espanhol) Galaico-Português, Catalão e Vasco).
Do outro lado o Estado Português, falando o Português (Galaico-Português), Estado este em que não havia qualquer necessidade de impor uma língua, todos falávamos, e falamos, Português. O Estado Espanhol por sua vez tinha que impor o seu Castelhano contra as restantes línguas que aí se falavam, criando um conceito desconhecido no mundo da língua portuguesa, o conceito de "íngua imperial," "hablar el castellano es hablar la lengua del imperio."
Daqui a dificuldade de tratar o tema "Hispanic or Portuguese," é que Hispanic é um conceito formado na base do pressuposto de que quem está sob o domínio dos Estados que falam Castelhano fala Castelhano. Facto não verdadeiro em todos eles, em Espanha falam-se 4 línguas, no México várias, no Perú várias, etc..., etc...
Eu sou Espanhol, faço a diferença entre ser Espanhol e falar Espanhol, pois falo Catalão, ou Vasco, ou Galego.
Eu sou Português, ou Brasileiro, não faço a diferença de pertencer a esse Estado e não falar Português, pois inerente ao facto de o ser está a realidade de falar a língua.
Um abraço amigo, desculpem toda este palavreado. Virgílio Soares da Silva
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Mr Mira, By an odd coincidence a question was posed to me today by a census taker, "Are you Hispanic?" My answer was spontaneous, "No" I'm fully aware that Portugal and Spain are the Iberian Peninsula and therefore their inhabitants are Hispanic, but psychologically, to me; an Hispanic is a Spanish speaking person from Central and South America. I am a Luso-American thereby, belonging to a sub-culture and proud of it. I feel no affinity with a Spaniard. Portugal was under Spain's yoke for 60 yrs. because of Sebastian's disappearance and lack of succession to the throne. They are two separate entities. That's my two cents for what it's worth. Wishing you well, Alice Botas
- One of the Lusiads (another point of view): www.angelfire.com/country/portugal/
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I can't resist posting the article I ran in O Progresso back in December 1995 under the headline "Are We Hispanic, or What?":
The Portuguese scholar/writer Eduardo Mayone Dias of UCLA gives an amusing twist to the "Are we Hispanic" question in a September issue of the newspaper "Brazil Today." We excerpt and paraphrase: On filing a police complaint he was asked by the clerk if he were Hispanic. Define the term Hispanic, Dias said. "Are you Mexican?" No, he responded. "Then you're not Hispanic," he was told. He wondered: were he a Guatemalan or a Nicaraguan, then he wasn't Hispanic? His identity crisis commenced when he first applied for a visa to enter the U.S. To the question as to hs color, he wrote "white." The clerk crossed it out and wrote Caucasian. He wasn't familiar with that classification in Portugal, and was always assured that he was born in Campo do Ourique and never saw any mountains in the Caucasus. His indignation increased, but mindful that he wanted a visa and not a debate on geography, he kept quiet and let the clerk classify him as he wished. Once here he considered himself Caucasian, but doubt persisted. Having been born in the Iberian Peninsula, or what his 4th grade school book also called the Hispanic Peninsula, wasn't he legally and etymologically Hispanic? He wasn't "Spanish surnamed" because he wrote Dias with an S and not a Z, but isn't ethnicity more important than orthography? When time came to fill out the census document, his anxiety returned. He telephoned the Census Bureau and no one could tell him what he was. Perhaps they didn't know where Portugal was, a geographic indifference he often encountered. To avoid such problems, he once told a lady who asked where he was born, he replied, "In a small place east of New York." "Hoboken?" she asked. How is it in fact possible to arrange on a questionnaire all the ancestral baggage, complicated by administrative or spelling accident? What are two persons with Portuguese passports, one born in Angola with the surname Chissano, and the other from Macau who gives the name Li? Is one Afro-Latino-European and the other Asiatic-Latino-Europen? Actually, the more pertinent question is: to North American eyes what are we, Brazilian and Portuguese, coming from countries of a variety of pigmentations and with surnames truly ecumenical? It is clear that we could always declare ourselves "other" but isn't that anonymity somewhat humiliating? Perhaps, Dias wrote, since his mother was Spanish, the next time he has to respond he'll write with great assurance "Caucasian-Latin-European-Semi Hispanic-Other." Lionel Holmes, California.
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According to the «Ministerio dos Negocios Estrangeiros» (foreign office) web page:
«Portuguese is the official language. Derived from Latin, the Portuguese language spread along the western coast of the Iberian Peninsula with the Roman invasion of 218 BC. Since then the Portuguese language has been variously influenced and altered, adopting new words used by the Germanic invaders and later, in 711, numerous Arab words after the Moorish invasion of the Peninsula. Finally words from the peoples and lands discovered and/or colonized were also adapted together with more recent French and English additions. The result is a language which is spoken in seven countries: Portugal, Brazil, Angola, Mozambique, Guinea-Bissau, São Tomé and Cape Verde, spread over five continents, as well as the territories of Macau and East-Timor.
The Portuguese language is one of the most-widely spoken languages in the world and it is estimated that by the year 2000 it will be spoken by 200 million people.»
Nothing to do with «Spanish»!!! Parabens aos 200,000,000 que falam Português! --Luis K W * * *
Hi, I've seen where Portuguese were classified as Latino, and we are from the same Iberian bloodline as Spaniards. Anyway, I am working for the Census at the moment and I read something that describes what a Hispanic is (according to the Census). It specifically states that the Portuguese are not to be counted as Hispanics for census purposes. I say that we share the same origins, though, and Portuguese was once a Spanish dialect as far as I know. I'm interested in all of your comments --Sincerely, Gio
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Thanks, Gio for your participation in this discussion. For your information Portuguese is not and never has been a Spanish dialect. Remember, the language in Spain is really Castillian, not Spanish. Also Portugal is the only country in Europe where only one language is spoken.
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What about the following comment? «I want to kill that Gio!!!!» :-)) Luis K.W.
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Dear Mr. Mira - I noticed that the Library of Congress web site has former Congressman Tony Coelho listed under "Hispanic Americans in Congress". My great grandparents emigrated from the Azores to southeastern Massachusetts around the turn of the century. We have never identified ourselves as Hispanic. Is there something I should know? G.C. - Worcester, Mass.
- Dear Mr. G.C. - This is a battle we have been fighting for many years. My immediate suggestion is to write to the Library of Congress to the attention of: Dr. Iêda Siqueira Wiarda, Ph. D. Hispanic Division, 101 Independence Ave. SE , Washington, DC 20540-4850. If we all write, eventually they'll correct it. Dr. Iêda is sympathetic to our plea, and she understands. It is unfortunate that most Americans do not know the difference between being Hispanic and Portuguese. The word Hispanic derives from the Roman province of Hispania. The Roman Emperor Augustus (27 BC-14AD) divided it into two provinces and named them Hispania and Lusitania. Lusitania is today most of modern Portugal, therefore we're Lusitanos not Hispanics, this is a term used mostly only in America. Spain and Portugal share the Iberian Peninsula. We and more than 200 millions throughout the world who share our culture, language and ancestry descend from the Lusitanos.The proud people of Azores and their rich history, have played a prominent part in helping to keep our culture and language in many parts of the world since the 16th century. You and your friends can help. Write Today Good Luck, MM
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(We kindly request our visitors to translate the following from Portuguese to English)
Caro Francisco, O português é espanholado, e ao mesmo tempo o espanhol é aportuguesado.
O que verdadeiramente interessa é que nós não falamos castelhano ( e palavras como nom (não), pero (mas), ou cura (padre) eram comuns nos dois reinos, pelo que não se pode afirmar serem castelhanas). Nem falámos nunca. A maior proximidade de línguas é entre Portugal e Galiza (ainda hoje o Galego se esforça para se aproximar do português), que têm palavras comuns (os galegos muitas vezes não escrevem "y" mas "e", nem "hablar" mas "falar"). Um abraço, Jacinto Bettencourt
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E há outra língua esquecida que se falava na corte de Afonso X de Leão e Castela: o leonês, que foi sendo progressivamente absorvido pelo castelhano, mas de que restam alguns dialectos como o mirandês. João F. Simas
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Sim, é verdade aquilo que diz. E também é verdade que no séc. XVI a língua culta era a da corte de Castela. Mas também é verdade que o Galaico-português é diferente do castelhano, possivelmente por uma maior influência do provençal. O certo é que D. Dinis não escreveu em Castelhano. Uma coisa que não concordo diz respeito aos dialectos galaico-portugueses.
Que se saiba era uma língua também estruturada com diversas variações, com certeza, mas como o Castelhano também as teve. O catalão é diferente do Castelhano e isso deve-se à longa independência cultural da Catalunha. O que não se passou entre a Galiza e Portugal durante a primeira dinastia. O que é certo é que tirando obviamente documentação em latim, nenhum das fontes que consultei na Torre do Tombo, nomeadamente na Chancelaria Régia, foi escrita em castelhano. O castelhano de Afonso X, das Sete Partidas, está bastante mais longe do actual, que o português (ou galaico-português) de D. Dinis.
Outro dado a reter, sobre o avanço das línguas: se a organização do castelhano tem as suas raízes na permanência das estruturas culturais visigóticas, também é verdade que o galaico-português seria a língua que sucedeu nas zonas de ocupação sueva, cuja capital foi Braga, diocese que tem enorme participação no processo de independência portuguesa. E ao que parece, D. Afonso Henriques rodeou-se de fidalgos galegos.
A conclusão, perante tudo isto, e tendo em conta a independência portuguesa e as pretensões portuguesas a diversas praças na Galiza durante a primeira dinastia (e esporádicamente, noutras dinastias) é que o português serviu, bem mais cedo, para estabelecer fronteiras. Foi aliás a primeira fronteira entre Portugal e Leão/Castela.
Ora, nós pensamos na língua que falamos. E a fala não existe sem um povo, antes é elemento constitutivo deste. Talvez o povo português tomasse consciência de si primeiro (antes do Castelhano) porque a sua língua era de facto diferente...Um abraço, Jacinto Bettencourt
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Quanto a mim, as linguas derivadas do Latim cujas pronuncias se mantiveram mais fieis ao original foram o Português e o Romeno. Por isso é que, apesar de serem tão diferentes, ouvidas ao longe até são muito semelhantes... Luis K.W.
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I have been reading all the opinions of everyone on who's Spanish the one I agree more is the one that says we are human. In Genesis chpt. 2. The creation of man and woman GOD didn't let us know what group they belong to and WE all came from them so I guess HUMAN is a good word for it but this is my opinion. I was born in Terceira and so were my parents but I know far back at sometime they came from somewhere else but I am what I am but most of all I am a CHRISTIAN. Thank you for letting me give my opinion. Jose Alicea.
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This is a question I asked to an expert on Iberia. Subject: Hispanic - Answered by: bluefeather55 Asked By: mthumudo asked this question on 4/21/2000: Are people from Portugal considered Hispanic? Reasons why is Yes or No. Response: Portuguese people are Latin, but are not Hispanic, Hispanic refers to the mixture of Spanish and native American heritage. Specifically, native americans from central and South America.
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In the summer of 1994 the newspaper "Luso-Americano" invited its readers to comment on the question of Portuguese as Hispanics. I loosely translated for O Progresso some of the comments: "I am against the idea of being considered Hispanic . . . We are Portuguese and don't need the help of anyone to be successful . . ." Another: "The Portuguese and their discoveries opened many worlds . . . and we have no need to be called Hispanics." Another: "In no way should we be considered Hispanics . . . We had our independence from Castile in 1140, therefore we must be Portuguese and no thing more." In response to those quotations one O Progresso reader wrote: "I never heard the word Hispanic until I moved to CA in 1974 . . . The country I was born in . . . recognizes people of Portuguese culture or origin, not part of the Hispanic racial group. That country is U.S.A."
Eduardo Mayone Dias had an amusing article in the September 1995 issue of "Brazil Today," entitled "Are We Hispanic, or What?
Lionel Holmes, California
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Another example of how difficult ethnic labels can become: my Italian grandfather was born in Santa Barbara das Canoas (now the city of Guaranesia), Minas Gerais, Brazil. Does that make him Brazilian? My grandfather would say that he was Italian-Brazilian with a smile. I guess that is why genealogy is so interesting. :) Ethnicity has a lot to do with culture and tradition rather that place of birth.
Richard Matera
That is precisely what I was driving at. The whole time my mother was alive, she told us we had "Hungarian" ancestors because her own mother was born in what is modern Hungary. While that statement is partly true, in fact our name was LISKA which has absolutely no meaning in Hungarian. It means "fox" in the Slovak language and I confirmed that she came from an Ethnic Slovak village in what was all Hungary at that time. So ask a Slovak if they are Hungarian and you might have a blood bath. Ask a Serb if they are Hungarian and it is the same. Yes, they are all European, but then we must start to divide the different ethnic groups.
My big discovery about my "Hungarian" roots did reveal a small percentage of Magyar blood, but twice as much Slovak.
Brazil is like a little Europe. There are Germans there and my German grandfather had a brother settle in Bahia. I still need to track down those relatives named SPECHT. My friend in Canada with Hungarian and Czech-German roots had a relative move to Rio de Janeiro and my research shows a large amount of Hungarians settled there. So the point is exactly what you say, and like we have it here in the U.S., it is a big melting pot and ethnic identity must always come with a hyphenated definition like German-Brazilian, Italian-American, etc. Doug Holmes, California
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(We kindly request our visitors to translate the following from Portuguese to English)
"Hispanic/Portuguese"--como deve saber, é assunto vinagroso para alguns, e venenoso para outros. Acho que convem pesquisar mais este tema controversio, mas valioso.
Por acaso, ja escreveu a Biblioteca do Congesso (depto. de portugues), e a companhia de diccionarios: Merriam-Webster, em Springfield, MA acerca do assunto? E provavel que possa obter algumas explicações adequadas daqueles dois elementos. Segundo o diccionario (Merriam-Webster, ha cerca de 10 anos), os portugueses nao eram considerados hispanicos--evidentemente, decisão feita por autoridades em Washington, DC. Segundo me consta, enquanto não houver quaisquer modificações movimentadas pelos responsaveis, o caso continuará mesmo assim. Creio que o assunto necessita de clareza mais profunda.
De certeza, sabe que os portugueses na California são "hispanicos." Questão, pois, oficializada pelos esforços, creio, de Tony Coelho.
Será que na "Portufornia" os diccionarios são muito mais diversificados dos de "Portuchusetts?" "Aiguesse" que "airano!"
Enfim, ha Californianos que conhecem Massachusetts por "Mars" --"Mars"achusetts!--não apenas pelo clima tão baloiçado, mas por estarmos enfiados num cantinho tão distanciado do "Golden sseteite!" :-) Mesmo assim, cá em "Mars"achusetts, somos considerados o "berço da educação," ou como dizem os americanos-- "cradle of Education." Já é qualquer coisa. (Não que a Harvard, MIT, BC, BU...) influenciem muito o resto do pais...)
Sabia que nos EUA o unico (creio) orgão federal que considera os portugueses como grupo minoritario é o U.S. Dept. of Transportation? Talvez as autoridades desse Depto. pudessem fornece-lo mais pormenores. Creio que não nos consideram como "hispanicos," mas, sim, como "portugueses." O assunto tem muito interesse.
Adalino Cabral, Boston
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According to the dictionary Hispanic means from the Iberian Peninsula. So the misnomer is when calling Latinos, Hispanics. Latinos come from Latin America which includes just about everything south of the United States (in the Western Hemisphere). Also it includes the languages of Spanish, Portuguese and French.
Unless the New World Dictionary has changed, that basically is the definition. I consider myself a Luso-American, but the census doesn't have that race, so like Cheri, I come from the human race and that is what my census report states.
People of Portuguese ancestry cannot get loans for businesses as a minority, but either can a person that is Spanish and whose roots are in Spain. If you are from Continental Europe you are not considered a minority. Again that the way it was when I was working for a living a few years back. Mario Thumudo
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Indeed, it is controversial and political. In my state, Washington, part of the government explicitly defines Portuguese as Hispanic and part explicitly excludes Portuguese from the definition of Hispanic.
For instance: Portuguese descendants are specifically mentioned as qualifying as "Hispanic" within the state's minority business registration system. Yet our higher education system (eg, Universities) clearly states that Portuguese are not included in their definition of Hispanic. Deb Kleber, Seattle, WA, USA
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I'm an Iberian. Though the dollar stands for now, passing and passing years will show that times must change and change just like the water in a cup keeping me as like I am: an Iberian from hundred and more hundred and hundred years! Manoel Cesar Furtado
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(We kindly request our visitors to translate the following from Portuguese to English)
Hispanic é coisa de "gringo". Eu sou brasileiro. A minha família na linha masculina habita desde pelo menos o início do século XVIII no raio de 150 quilômetros de um dos melhores trechos do mundo ! A área de São Francisco do Sul-Joinville-Paranaguá-Curitiba. Esta área recebeu significativa população estrangeira ao longo dos últimos 150 anos, de modo que os descendentes coloniais são uma minoria e mais ainda os descendentes de portugueses. No entanto, a nossa identidade enquanto brasileiros está firmemente ligada à nossa língua e à nossa cultura, das quais nos consideramos, enquanto brasileiros, dos seus maiores herdeiros e dos seus maiores defensores. Foi um tio meu, o Senador Carlos Gomes de Oliveira, que em 1934 inscreveu na Constituição uma lei que afirmava que o português é obrigatório como língua na educação elementar brasileira, porque na época corria-se o sério risco da criação de quistos estrangeiros no território brasileiro. A única identidade étnica e nacional que eu aceito é a de brasileiro. Ser brasileiro é falar o português e estar vinculado com a cultura brasileira derivada da expressão histórica colonial portuguesa em contato com os índios, os negros e todos os imigrantes que vieram para o Brasil e contribuíram para o país. Quem se separou do Brasil em 1820/22 foi Portugal com o motim contra o bom Rei Dom João VI. Quando estava em curso a primeira experiência política de unidade transcontinental em bases igualitárias entre as diversas partes, interesses pequenos quebraram a obra começada na guerra contra os mouros e na demarcação contra os castelhanos. Quebrou-se o projeto globalizante da ínclita geração e o sonho de unidade das populações portuguesas nos diversos continentes. Nos fragmentos da política de Impérios que se foram sobrevive o mito do Quinto Império. No tamanho, na complexidade e no gigantismo do Brasil a expressão da língua portuguesa preserva a noção do que foi, e sendo a si mesma, lembrando-se do que era, poderá voltar a ser um dia o que foi na sua extensão máxima e então será muito mais. E além de tudo o Brasil foi o time melhor classificado no esporte mais popular do século XX ! Viemos pra bater minha gente. Perdoai o meu entusiasmo com esse pequeno pedacinho:
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Ricardo Costa de Oliveira. Nossa Senhora da Luz dos Pinhais de Curitiba. Estado do Brasil. * * *
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That's 'cuz those of European origin are Caucasian & those of Latin & South America are considered mestizos (mixed race).
Joe Rose
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Well just so you know Hispanic scholarships do not apply to people of European origin only South American and Mexico -- Even if they speak Spanish or Portuguese. So we are not eligible for minority scholarships in Nevada.
Deb in Nevada.
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When the U.S. Federal 2000 Census came around, and they asked for my race, I checked OTHER and wrote down HUMAN. Do you think the Census Bureau will be calling me up for a definition of that???
Cheri
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Here are my "dois escudos" on the subject:
Perhaps one of the best comparisons about why a Portuguese descendant should not consider themselves Hispanic can be found by asking someone like a Basque. As you know, the Basques have long had their own language, longer than the Spanish and Portuguese languages, and they live in what is now called Spain, the north part and on the French border in the mountains.
So ask a Basque if they consider themselves Spanish, let alone Hispanic. I think they would agree that yes, they live in Spain but in their minds and hearts, they know they are not like the rest of them, they are Basque.
In a far more obvious example, if you ask a French person if they are French or are they European. They answer yes to both, but at the core they are French.
So in my opinion, at the core, a person from Portugal is Portuguese, not Hispanic. Doug in California
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I was born in Brazil, my parents were born in Brazil, some grandparents born in Brazil others from Azores. I have lived my entire life since a baby here in the USA. I consider myself first an American, then a Brazilian with Portuguese/Azorean descendants. I do not consider myself Latin or Hispanic as the term is used here in California! My ethnic customs at home are not at all Spanish/Mexican/or the other South American countries. Our language at home is Portuguese, our food is European based...not tacos, enchiladas, hot peppers or such! More like good ole meat and potatoes of the European. Our religion is Catholic and all feast days celebrated are based on Portuguese/Azorean feast days. We do not revere Our Lady of Guadalupe as patroness, but Our Lady of Fatima. We have Holy Ghost celebrations...Hispanics do not...we do not kill the bull in bullfights... Well, as you can understand the list goes on and on and on and on...
I do speak Spanish due to Southern California having such a large Spanish speaking population. Hispanics/Latins are not even aware of the customs which are Portuguese or Brazilian, they think it's all the same...NOT!!!
Just thought I would throw in my .02 cents...thanks for reading, Marcia de Aguiar, Southern California
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I have never considered myself 'Hispanic' although many other 'Hispanics' address me in Spanish, assuming I am by my looks. I always answer them in Portuguese and they smile. I have always identified myself as Portuguese or Azorean. Several years ago, I got into a huge disagreement with several members of a church I used to be a member of because they insisted that I was Hispanic and would not accept MY definition of MY ethnicity. Strictly speaking, the origin of the word Hispanic is from the Latin HISPANIA, the old Roman province that included all of the Iberian peninsula. It does mean the people of Spain and Portugal; and more recently also people from "Latin" America. [Yet another debate, I'm sure.] The vast majority of Portuguese people I know do not consider themselves Hispanic. There are some who identify themselves as 'Luso-Americans.' But does that clarify anything? The problem in the USA is that when you say "Hispanic" people immediately think of someone from Central or South America, not Spain. (Someone from Spain is 'Spanish.') So, someone from Portugal is 'Portuguese.' Ultimately, it comes down to what YOU want to identify yourself as ethnically.
Richard A. Matera [an Italian/Portuguese/American] :)
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The term "Hispanic" has its roots in "Hispania" or Spain. "Hispano" on the other hand has its roots in "Hispanus" or "Spanish". Both of which are self explanatory and have nothing to do with being from Portugal or being Portuguese. The equivalent would be "Lusitano" or "Luso". I hope this answers your question. A. A. de Moraes
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The "Are Portuguese Hispanic" topic has been touched a few times in "O Progresso," which I edit for the Portuguese Historical & Cultural Society. In my book, "Portuguese Pioneers of the Sacramento Area," I wrote this:
". . . former Congressman Tony Coelho . . . persuaded fellow Latino legislators in Washington to admit him to membership in the Hispanic Caucus, citing as justification the Miriam-Webster Dictionary definition of Hispanic as 'of or relating to the people, speech, or culture of Spain and Portugal. . .' Few, if any other Portuguese-Americans, however, consider themselves Hispanic, and prefer not to be identified as a 'minority.'"
In 1994 the California Legislature passed a bill by then senator Henry Mello which amended the designation "Hispanic" to include a person of Portuguese ancestry for purposes of certification as a minority business enterprise with respect to state-funded contracts. The Oakland City Council opposed the idea, saying that the Public Contract Code sections concerning minority and business enterprises were intended to 'encourage and develop businesses of minority groups that have suffered from pernicious and historical discrimination in business opportunities' and held that 'there is no empirical data that documents that persons of European Spanish or Portuguese origin have suffered historic discrimination.'
Most if not all Portuguese in California do not consider themselves Hispanic.
Lionel Holmes, California.
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Portuguese people are different: The Portuguese population have stayed relatively isolated in the last few thousand years which makes them unique from the rest of the Iberian population. This conclusion was the result of a study made by the University of Coimbra in Portugal and the University of Madrid in Spain. This study may have important applications in the organ transplant of individuals of Portuguese origin or ancestry. The study was published in the magazine "Immunogenetics."
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Hello Manuel--- Just have to reply. Hispanic means someone of Spanish descent. I am a second generation American of Portuguese descent (mom's side from Madeira/dad's side from the Azores) If you are Portuguese ---you have ancestors of Portuguese descent. If you are Hispanic -- this means your ancestors are Spanish or Latin American (according to Random House College Dictionary). The Spanish and Portuguese are distinctive by way of their own geographical, cultural, sociological and political background. They are both wonderful in their own right. Please let us not melt them into one group.
Enjoy this site Mary Murphy
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I was reading the e-mails and noticed that someone complained about Tony Coelho being listed in "Hispanic Americans in Congress". I don't understand this complaint. I'm of Azorean Portuguese background, and I label myself Hispanic -- after all Hispanic means Iberian. If I didn't mark Hispanic, I wouldn't know what to mark. Being brown skinned, people have always labeled me as "Hispanic"-- and I specify: Portuguese. Why would we not want to mark Hispanic/Latino? Are background, Iberian/Latin American is all the same in its diversity! Jennifer Carvalho
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Dear Mr. Mira - I noticed that the Library of Congress web site has former Congressman Tony Coelho listed under "Hispanic Americans in Congress". My great grandparents emigrated from the Azores to southeastern Massachusetts around the turn of the century. We have never identified ourselves as Hispanic. Is there something I should know?
G.C. - Worcester, Mass.
Dear Mr. G.C. - This is a battle we have been fighting for many years. My immediate suggestion is to write to the Library of Congress to the attention of: Dr. Iêda Siqueira Wiarda, Ph. D. Hispanic Division, 101 Independence Ave. SE, Washington, DC 20540-4850. If we all write, eventually they'll correct it.
Dr. Iêda is sympathetic to our plea, and she understands. It is unfortunate that most Americans do not know the difference between being Hispanic and Portuguese. The word Hispanic derives from the Roman province of Hispania. The Roman Emperor Augustus (27 BC-14AD) divided it into two provinces and named them Hispania and Lusitania. Lusitania is today most of modern Portugal, therefore we're Lusitanos not Hispanics, this is a term used mostly only in America. Spain and Portugal share the Iberian Peninsula. We and more than 200 millions throughout the world who share our culture, language and ancestry descend from the Lusitanos.The proud people of Azores and their rich history, have played a prominent part in helping to keep our culture and language in many parts of the world since the 16th century. You and your friends can help. Write Today.
Good Luck, MM